Ive been to a few coffee /espresso shops, that even offer pourover, but their standard is brew pot coffee usually.

Some if these places are roasting and selling fresh coffee too.

I honestly havent thought any of the coffee I bought was what i call "good " coffee. Comparable to average gas stations for most part. Not bad...not stale.. Still mostly dark char taste. No chocolate tones or acidity. ..little mouth feel, weak.. Just too dark and weak mostly imo.

When i make my own with THEIR coffee.......way better even.

How can some 3rd wave coffee shops be.....so bad at selling good coffee?
I probably shouldnt go into how bad i think the espresso is too.. but to say "why would anyone buy it?" The baristas arent real baristas....they are college kids usually just doing what they are instructed.

Or are my tastes out of line? I tend to like strong....roasted just after 1c. Where origins are evident.


I actually got a sumatran coffee from a gas station several months ago that may have been the best cup of brewed i ever purchased. .....it had....flavors besides burnt. It was from a Sheetz gas station off i-85 , somewhere between Virginia and New Jersey. Sheetz grinds their own coffee...they make espresso in store too..

Instead of posting your location as "State of Confusion", it may help to give your true location (obviously your choice).

This site has a section entitled "Cafes" and there may be something close to your locale.

I'm not interested in finding a good shop.

I'm wondering why so many of what are supposed to be coffee shops have such average coffee that I could hardly discern from most gas stations....

I have a shop near me that roasts and sell good coffee beans. The coffee they actually serve is just blah imo.

Who knows. Vote with your dollars, don't buy from them and drink coffee at home if yours is a lot better. I know mine is. I haven't drank coffe at a local shop in probably 3 years or more.

Well, that's what I do. I buy and roast and drink mine as much as possible. Hell I look forward to my coffee in morning.

But I travel a bit. Planes, trains, automobiles.

In airports I will go out of my way to find anything but Starbucks. It's all bad...but Starbucks is the worst. All tastes burnt.

But...even at better small shops, it's still not "good" to me.

Mbb wrote:I'm not interested in finding a good shop. I'm wondering why so many of what are supposed to be coffee shops have such average coffee that I could hardly discern from most gas stations.

We each have our own set of preferences and limits, and it appears that yours are a bit more stringent than many (if not most), Martin. That's OK - none of us will think ill of you for sticking to your standards. But I've been to many coffee shops in cities around the world that (at least, to me) offer better-than-average coffee of all kinds. Sure, we've had marginal shots and cups at many places with good equipment. But we also find that many of the owners and baristas at such places are very interested in our opinions and quite open to suggestions for improvement. We've had excellent coffee at shops in unexpected places like South Dakota and Montana. We've also had excellent wines from unexpected places like Arizona.

Apart from Australia and New Zealand, we haven't had good coffee in airports - and we've not encountered airport "baristas" with any apparent interest in the customers' opinions of their products. But that's a setting in which business models don't strive for top performance to make a buck, so I just don't get coffee in airports.

Well I don't doubt that there are good shops that make exceptional coffee by real Baristas who are enthusiasts about the trade.

Just last week my wife and I were traveling and stopped in a coffee shop in evening . She got a mocha frappe cappa something or other, with the caramel and whipped cream... I got black coffee. As usual even though the Blackboard with the hand chalk writing on it touted the wonderful attributes of this coffee of the day..... And the guy made a fresh batch just for me......It was hardly discernible as a specialty coffee to me. Tasted like starbucks. Clean, but dark roasted and generic.

bluesman wrote:Apart from Australia and New Zealand, we haven't had good coffee in airports - and we've not encountered airport "baristas" with any apparent interest in the customers' opinions of their products. But that's a setting in which business models don't strive for top performance to make a buck, so I just don't get coffee in airports.

Portland has several decent espresso options, including Stumptown, but we're probably an exception.

To Martin,

Most people still think of coffee as a caffeinated beverage to be sweetened and as a flavor agent for hot milk. Barista training is hit or miss at many cafes. I'm surprised, though, that you expressed disinterest in finding good coffee shops, because people here are often guiding each other to the best local places, which is especially helpful when traveling. That's one of the main functions of the Cafes forum.

Well, I think that...
...it IS just you!

I am seeing more and more very good shops. Most of the new shops do a great job overall.

drgary wrote:Most people still think of coffee as a caffeinated beverage to be sweetened and as a flavor agent for hot milk. Barista training is hit or miss at many cafes.

This I agree 100% with. On my floor of about 50 people in my office building you can count the people who will drink black coffee unsweetened on one hand, maybe 1 finger. The money is in selling the sweetened drinks to people. But in my opinion if you're not drinking straight coffee or espresso you're not drinking coffee, but a coffee drink.