"Tasteless" coffee

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
Chase106G
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#1: Post by Chase106G »

Hi, I'm trying to dial in and I have some issue.

17 in 34 out in 26 seconds 93c 9 bar the coffee is a little bitter/85% dark chocolate with good body
17 in 34 out in 32 seconds 90c 9 bar the coffee is tasteless, there is a tiny/almost not noticeable hint of sour but not other flavors and there is no body.

I just can't find the sweet spot. Is it the temp need to be changed or staying with 93c and just grind coarser and pull the shot in about 20 seconds?
Coffee is 15 days old

This pic is from the tasteless shot

Milligan
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#2: Post by Milligan »

Slight changes in time and slight changes in temp aren't going to do much for you. Try varying your ratio to find a tasty zone. Try coarsening the grind and target a shot at 17in 45out in roughly the 28-32s range and see if that improves the flavor. Without knowing what kind/roast level of coffee you have it is hard to say much more. I would pick a temp and stay there though until you get decently dialed in. Temp is one of the last levers to pull and is roughly set by roast level.

Chase106G (original poster)
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#3: Post by Chase106G (original poster) »

Roast level is light medium to medium.

The roaster told me to go for 91c and 1:2.2 (25-30 sec), but it's bitter only so I'm trying to play without luck so far.

In general, it's better to go for low temp and long time brew or higher temp and short time brew?

Milligan
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#4: Post by Milligan »

Hmmm, bitter for a medium-light is usually hard to achieve at that low of a ratio. I suggested a longer ratio at a coarser grind because there can be a bitter/sour confusion especially if channeling is involved. If it truly is bitter on a medium-light roast with your current parameters then you can try a shorter ratio but you seem to have bumped against sour in your descriptions as well. Unfortunately, if you are getting sour and bitter notes in the same ratio range then you are either channeling or there are roast defects.

Ratio is a big lever to pull when dialing in.

Chase106G (original poster)
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#5: Post by Chase106G (original poster) »

Thank you.

Just to be sure, no matter the ratio/grind size, I always need to be at the 28-32s range , right?

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TomC
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#6: Post by TomC replying to Chase106G »

Do you have some previous positive experience to draw from with this coffee from the roaster or a cafe? If not, it could just be poorly roasted or bad coffee.
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Milligan
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#7: Post by Milligan »

Chase106G wrote:Thank you.

Just to be sure, no matter the ratio/grind size, I always need to be at the 28-32s range , right?
That is a good range to be in but do not get hung up on it. But as Tom and I noted, it may be either roast defects/poorly roasted coffee or a coffee that doesn't jive with your palate. The hardest part about learning espresso is that it isn't always your fault! :?

Chase106G (original poster)
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#8: Post by Chase106G (original poster) »

Well, in the end I ran out of this coffee and i was always close to the target but never touch it.
The new coffee is much better, the problem is with the rosters, they tell you "this is recipe/borders", but it's never there.

The new coffee need to be brewed (by the roster) 93c 1:2, in reality, lot's of other users told me to try 89c and 1:1.5 (with this specific coffee), and its working!
I understand that low temp will give me more time/less chance to get the bitter part, but what the ratio have to do with it?

What is the side affect of the ratio? I know it's only responsible for the dilution and there for strength/concentration of the taste, but how can it help to shift from the sour part to the sweet part of the brewing?

ojt
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#9: Post by ojt »

Putting more water through the coffee extracts more of it. It does affect density of course also. Kind of feels like you're actually dealing with a fairly dark roast. The roast levels are hard to communicate and aren't really that standardized or commonly understood, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the roaster says the roast level is.

If it feels like it works better in lower temperature then just lower the temperature.
Osku

Chase106G (original poster)
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#10: Post by Chase106G (original poster) »

So what is the difference between ratio extension and grinding finner extraction?

I can stay with the same ratio but grinding finner and still extract more...