Tamper and Leveler (distributor). Do you need to use both?

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
kpucci
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#1: Post by kpucci »

Just wondering what people think/feel about using a tamper after using a leveler. I have read many posts and watched many videos about either side of this debate. I personally find that I do not need to tamp after I level as the grounds seem compacted enough. Thoughts?

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baldheadracing
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#2: Post by baldheadracing »

Whatever works and tastes best to you is what you should do 8).

For example, I get more consistent results between shots by using the OCD just deep enough to smooth out the WDT'd grounds, followed by tamping. However, that is probably because I rarely use a 58mm basket, so my 58mm tamping skills are not that good.

I can't use the OCD by itself, as the OCD's design will lead to inconsistent bed compaction if used too deeply (a relatively more dense puck in the middle). I do not know about other distributors.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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Jeff
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#3: Post by Jeff »

I level with my WDT tool and tamp. For me, I can't figure out why a leveler would provide any benefit. If you're getting evenly extracted pours, your prep is working well. If there are signs of unevenness or, if you have a refractometer and are below around 20% EY, you might want to consider exploring other options. (Buying a refractometer is far from essential for the vast majority of people.)

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BaristaBoy E61
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#4: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

baldheadracing wrote:Whatever works and tastes best to you is what you should do 8).
I completely agree with that.

I use a Mahlgut Palm Dozer and Palm Tamper with consistently good results. This has helped to develop both a streamlined workflow and a machine that stays cleaner due to less spritzing.

Better workflow and a cleaner machine were the unexpected bonuses.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

dsc106
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#5: Post by dsc106 »

I've seen a number of debates now and the sentiment among a number of very knowledgeable experts is WDT and tamp - no leveler.

I have not done enough A/B testing or any scientific measurement but my anecdotal experience has seemed to indicate to me that I prefer to WDT, level, tamp. I have my OCD set rather shallow, so it just makes for an even tamping surface.

I'm curious if anyone else has found this, it goes against some of what I've seen... but it's working for me. It might just be a consistency thing being able to get a more even tamp.

I do have the calibrated Decent tamper.

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baldheadracing
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#6: Post by baldheadracing »

Jeff wrote:I level with my WDT tool and tamp. For me, I can't figure out why a leveler would provide any benefit. If you're getting evenly extracted pours, your prep is working well. If there are signs of unevenness or, if you have a refractometer and are below around 20% EY, you might want to consider exploring other options. (Buying a refractometer is far from essential for the vast majority of people.)
A long time ago I pulled a bunch of shots on my Silvia, so the vibration pump's characteristics for pressure/flow.
- 12 grams in a VST-15 basket, bottomless portafilter
- Pharos
- WDT with paperclip (IIRC)
- 58.35mm flat Reg Barber
- fixed time extraction (because the PID can do that).
- 16 alternating shots between OCD / no OCD (eight each). All pours looked similar (no visible channeling).
- output mass measured
The OCD shots had significantly less variability in output mass than the non-OCD shots (via F-test or Bartlett's, I can't remember which test I used).

Lower inter-shot variability is a benefit in my case, in that setup, but I don't know why. It could simply be that I was unconsciously more careful preparing the shots using the OCD.

Regardless, I had already bought the tool. If it really made no difference, then I could not in good conscience sell it, and if it did make a difference, then I would want to keep using it. So I keep using it :wink:.

ETA: I did compare EY, but I was not using the OCD as designed so the results are not useful (OCD - ONA Coffee Distributor (tool for coffee in the portafilter basket))
AFAIK, the only known-good reason for using a leveler is if you are entering a barista competition (due to the way the scoring is done on preparation).
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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cafeIKE
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#7: Post by cafeIKE »

There's no hard and fast rule.

The devil is in the details. While one might have same coffee with the same grinder & machine ostensibly set to the same values, brewing in Edmonchuk ain't the same as here on the Oregon Coast.


Plinyyounger
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#8: Post by Plinyyounger »

After a few years of experimenting with diff high end grinders along with my pro 700, I've determined when I briefly but throughly Wdt, then level briefly but throughly followed by a good tamp, I get best results. Same thing every time, I think that is the key. After you find a good extraction no matter what the process, just do it the same each time.

I really really really do not like to, or like to watch excessive preparation, drives me nuts, lol. But that's my issue, lol.
Family, coffee and fun.

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Randy G.
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#9: Post by Randy G. »

There have been books and websites (!) created with a vast amount of data showing how many ways there are to make bad espresso. Just think about the variables: roast level, basket design, shower screen and group geometry, grind and dose, distribution, tamp. Water temperature, flow rate, preinfusion, declining pressure profiles, and so much more. There were years and years stating that a thirty pound tamp was required. Then the lever folks showed that a light tamp works best for them. An SCA head judge used a 'handstand' tamp and he looked like a linebacker! We have had calibrated, adjustable, and even a digital tamper showing the tamping force in real time. My advice is find out what works for you by doing as little as possible. If you can grind into the portafilter, shake and tamp, and it works for you, go for it. Every step eliminated removes one more place to screw up! :lol:
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BaristaBoy E61
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#10: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

Randy G. wrote:My advice is find out what works for you by doing as little as possible.
Sage advice. Don't torture yourself with needless procedure!
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

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