SSP 98mm "Brewing" Burrs - Page 3

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
njw

#21: Post by njw »

interested to see if anyone has compared ssp brewing vs ssp pre-2015 vs mk pre-2015? i have a max on order with coarse burrs, but the possibility for something better is always worth considering

Eiern

#22: Post by Eiern »

Today me and a friend compared SSP Low Uniformity burrs in a P100 vs post 15 EK burrs recut to the same finishing section as SSPs cast burrs (they call it pre 15 but they have been doing a few different ones) SSP Brew burrs in EK43S with Titus carrier and SSP Ultra Low Fines in P100.

The Brew burrs was the most clear burr, presenting the bean the most clearly, with the least noise, SSP recut EK burr seem the most blended/noisy, ULF also quite blended, and LU a little more blended (you could call it complex) than Brew but not as much as the other two.

We did Kono, V60, cupping and espresso, the same bean for every method but different method to method. Tried to match TDS as close as possible without getting under/over/off flavors. All burrs was good and extracted to a similar-ish high levels of extraction without downsides.



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saamyjoon
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#23: Post by saamyjoon » replying to Eiern »

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious how they compared for espresso?

Eiern

#24: Post by Eiern » replying to saamyjoon »

For espresso they showed sort of the same characteristics. All good burrs, subtle differences. I have my Bianca set to 86 degrees C, 6,5 Bar peak pressure, 6g/sec flow out of grouphead, I use 18g dose in a 20g VST basket with a Flair screen on top of the puck (WDT then tamp the screen on top of the bed).

With Ultra Low Fines I could pull (and usually do) a 1:3 espresso without bitterness or defects/downsides (only if the bean has defects, and that tend to be rather exposed with these, then I pull tighter ratio to compensate) and it can pull a tad slower (I usually don't pour slower than 30s total for a 18:54g most are 25~ish secs) and for the other three slightly tighter I think I stopped at ~50g or else they got bitter, and a little more turbo flow, I think all was in the 20-25 secs window with my Bianca (I rarely have a turbo shot work below 19 seconds without beginning to taste under).

Low Uniformity was close to the ULF in some aspects, like it's way to have a rounded (sorry) full blended 'complex' taste, not too thin or too bitter, still rather clear taste. I have only tasted this one bean as espresso with LU so it's a single experience/data point. It had a little more bitterness/noise in the mix than ULF even when pulled a little shorter. I could or would pull it even shorter. Would maybe work a tad better in milk drink than ULF with a little more of that espresso 'bite'. ULF is rather untraditional there in it's presentation, the opposite of a traditional shot? With this pair of LU burrs I had to grind only a few EK notches from zero-rub point.

Brew I have pulled more times as I own the burrs and it was maybe the most clear in some ways and usually don't give the same level of 'complex' blending as ULF/LU and I find for espresso I like it to have a little bit more of that blending/complex thing and slightly more elevated body or else I feel like it's just a consentrated filter experience. BUT it is good, and when pulled as turbo you can also at times get a nice body but sometimes not, it's just a little more easy to always have what I personally want with ULF. If I didn't have the ULF experience or only had one grinder with Brew burrs I'd be happy pulling with it. It's not as crazy clear and thin as the 64mm V1 Unimodal/Brew but perhaps the closest to it. With the 64mm I found some beans I didn't like for espresso and couldn't find a way to tweak the shot to like it. 98mm Brew isn't like that, it's a little bit of the same style but not as extreme. It's also very similar to the 98mm HU burr but relaxed (wider spread and less fines) so you can pull a little longer, and have less bitterness and intensity. I know you tame the bitterness in example by pulling HU shorter but I still find it to have somewhat bitterness in the mix, and that to me has a little traditional or generic espresso flavor, if it's tainting every brew the same. With 98mm Brew burrs I am fairly close to zero, but not too close. I think Chencheh has ran into beans he only could get a fast turbo shot at almost touching point with Brew in P100.

The post 15 EK burr recut to 'pre 15' SSP Silver Knight coated tasted actually pretty similar to a HU turbo shot to me but a little more noise, not as clear. It was good but I wouldn't put it on top of my list, I personnaly rate it lowest under HU and the other three here. I do like clarity. Again would be happy if it was all I had, because all of these burrs are good for all methods (even though you don't get completely traditional espresso with them). I think SSP's own cast burr has the same finishing section as these but a less steep angle on the first cast crushing sections of the burr for maybe even more fines than these. With these I am also rather close to the zero point.

If I could only have one grinder one burr for dual use it would most likely by Brew burrs or LU. I have listed my HU set for sale as I find it too similar to Brew to have both, and I prefer brew over it for all methods personally. But I think many would like the HU better for espresso as it does the most normal ratio shots, and there it's a hefty intense and flavorful experience that also should cut through milk. I find it a little too intense personally and would maybe end up diluting. And why would I use a burr that extracts 1:2 at 22% and dilute it when I can get the 1:3 I want, usually extracting 2% more without side effects with ULF, with the mouthfeel and balance I want. I find it a tad interesting that I find the ULF burr more blended at filter and rather clean at espresso range.

lukehk
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#25: Post by lukehk »

This is really useful thanks for sharing. I have LU and HU and have been considering the brew burrs. Looks like the brews burrs are great but maybe not necessary. I drink more filter than espresso but love them both I'll stick with LU which is also my preference for one burr at the moment

Eiern

#26: Post by Eiern »

Yeah I'm not sure it's worth the price to switch burrs in this price class especially if you're already happy, unless you crave something you're not getting. LU and HU cover a lot of ground. Also clarity comes at a cost, everytime a bean isn't perfect or very expressive/has a lot to give you really get a cup that reflects that. As I have two grinders I think it's cool that the two burrs at least are a little different, so if I for some reason want a more blended cup than Brew gives I can use ULF for filter.

culturesub

#27: Post by culturesub »

Quick opinion here- the upgrade from the LU to the SSP cast burrs(not these brew burrs) is 10000000% worth the upgrade if you're drinking mostly filter. I drink negligible amount of espresso, but the coffee is night and day for filter on Cast vs LU.

I also had in my hands a grinder with the new Brew burrs and a/b'd them to my Cast burrs. The brew burrs def were more transparent, but not per say better, and def dependent on the coffee itself. I wouldnt upgrade from the cast burrs to the new brew burrs(which are machined), as its way too close.

If I had to start with a new grinder I'd PROBABLY pick the brew burrs, which are absolute extraction monsters, but I also am drinking very high quality, lightly roasted coffee(think SEY, Tim Wendelboe, etc). If I was drinking something slightly darker or more prone to defect, I don't know I'd pick them.

Feel free to ask any questions!

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saamyjoon
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#28: Post by saamyjoon »

Curious what recipes folks are brewing with, and what's tasting good for you.

What have y'alls draw down times been like? I've noticed some pretty quick draw downs, but still with some good tasting brews.

When I first got these burrs, I was doing this v60 recipe (recipe 1):
18g coffee to 300g water, I'd bloom for 45s with a ~45-50g pour, pour to 180g, pour to 300g at 1:30-1:45. I'd often see draw down times between 3:00-3:30.

I've recently been using this recipe (recipe 2):
12g:200g, I'd "double bloom", so, at 0s I'd pour 30g, then up to 60g total at 45s, then up to 130g total at 1:30, then up to 200g at around 2-2:30 range (I usually do the second 70g pour based on the water height, not time), and I'm ending up with draw down times of 3:30ish. These brews are definitely tasting better than recipe 1. I think it's a combination of a smaller dose, the double bloom, and an extra pour. It definitely seems to be tasting like I'm getting better extractions with this recipe.


Another interesting thing I was noticing was that when brewing with recipe 1 (I haven't experimented with this using recipe 2), as I started to go just a bit too fine, I wouldn't necessarily stall the v60 or end up with super long draw downs, but I'd just end up with a lot of bypass (and therefore shorter draw down times). This is different than my previous grinder, which could definitely cause the v60 to stall. I'm thinking this is because these brew burrs produce way less fines. I was never brewing at obviously too fine of grind sizes (I'm sure I can still stall a v60 if I start brewing in the espresso-ish range). But I found it interesting that both as I went just a bit too fine, and a bit too coarse, I'd end up with shorter brew times. Initially this made it harder to dial in what I was doing, as I was used to grinding slightly too fine to cause longer draw downs. Have other people experienced the same thing?


I've also been experimenting with the Tricolate. I've been getting some really excellent cups of coffee at an 18:1 ratio, with a 1:30 bloom, with brew times all over the map: 5mins up to 13mins. I really like the brews the Tricolate produces, but I'm not always in the mood to drink the coffee it produces. Sometimes I'm just in the mood for a v60 brew. I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps it's the less even extraction, or less extraction in general. I still really like the tricolate, and for some more acidic coffees, I've been able to get flavors out of it that I can't replicate in the v60.

Eiern

#29: Post by Eiern »

I too have found out that I don't dial in pourovers by drawdown times with these burrs, it doesn't change that much. A few beans do though, I've had some beans (especially a few naturals) that are slower and kind of find them hard to brew as I don't like the taste of going much more coarser on the dial with them either, so I just turbo espresso them instead of gravity filter. Immersion methods would probably work better too.

I have used both a very similar V60 recipe as your first one with good luck, 12/200 and 24/400g sizes, pretty standard good cup of coffee, can be pretty sweet but not as clear as my Kono brews. I do like them though.

With the Kono I use similar to your double bloom recipe (I follow the Hedrick one exactly) for a very clear and intense brew. I have personally however not had any luck doing this recipe with a regular V60, with the V60 I don't like any longer bloom than 45 secs or else I just get bitter dry dirty taint. I tried that before I got my Kono (I got the ones with the shortest ribs). Some beans do draw down very fast even with the Kono, so that the water has almost reached the bed at 02:45 when I'm doing the final 70g pour. Still it extracts a lot. Slower brews I'm more suspicious of channeling so I'm happy with faster brew times (a slow V60 brew probably means a healthy amount of complete bypass and a lot of partial bypass).

By the way I tried a few 1:2 ratio espressos at around 30 seconds with Wendelboe's espresso roast, and it made a balanced cup, but these burrs doesn't have much body/mouthfeel, it's rather clean in presenting the beans characteristics, but it's not what I think these burrs do best (and not designed for). I liked them better at 1:2,5-1:2,75 with filter roast pulled faster, you can luck out and get some body there too but a bit more random/mystery to me how to get it, but I still prefer my Ultra Low Fines for espresso/turbo that always give me more body, so I'll use my Brew burrs for brews.

Had a decent V2 Tricolate brew but will try some other recipes too. I think these burrs will do great with most brewers actually.

saamyjoon
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#30: Post by saamyjoon »

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm glad that I'm not alone in how I'm tuning my brews. It seems like we're experiencing similar behavior of the brew burrs.

I ordered a Kono last week. I was inspired by Lance's video on it, it looks quite intriguing. I'll report back when it arrives and I get to experiment a bit.