Selecting a pour over - Page 3

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
Case17

#21: Post by Case17 »

Galbzilla wrote:I wanted to throw in my two cents. I have a lot of pour over brewers: V60-01, V60-02s, Kalita Wave 155, StaggX, a Chemex, and an Espro Bloom coming my way for giggles. Probably another one rusting away somewhere too. I find the V60s to give me the most consistent and most delicious coffees out of all the brewers. The user above me suggesting that all the V60s are capable of making the same amount of coffee and how different sizes are nonsense.. is... well... nonsense. The V60-01 and 02 have different sized openings and that contributes to a lot. I find the 01 is great for 12 ~ 18g or so, and the 02 works for around 25 ~ 35g or so. I've tried making smaller batches in the V60-02 (before I got the 01) and I had similar results as you, just less vibrant, boring, and more difficult to dial in.

The V60 requires the finest grind out all the brewers and I think that really contributes to a better extraction and more intense flavor overall. I do also really like my Chemex, but the coffees are usually ever-so-slightly less vibrant than the V60 brews but occasionally they are godly.

I found the Kalita Wave 155 to be a horrible brewer. Even though it's supposedly more consistent and easier to brew with, I didn't find that to be true at all. It still requires dialing in your grind and a precise technique for an even extraction. In fact, I find the cupcake filters to be infuriating since grinds get stuck in the folds (how is that supposed to be a more even extraction?). You can develop techniques to get the grounds out of the folds, but it will most likely result in you bypassing the coffee bed and pouring in between the filter and the brewer. Swirling certainly doesn't work well for that, in my experience. If you do end up with a brewer, don't get the 155, it will definitely not meet your 25-40g requirement.

The StaggX is even worse than the Kalita Wave. It is double walled, which is nice I suppose, but it has the same cupcake filter problem. On top of that, it doesn't just automatically sit level on top of cups or carafes because of some horribly weird design choice to remove the skirt. Oddly, it does sit perfectly level on my Hario decanter, but everything else requires a balancing act and is pretty much guaranteed to be not level in one direction as it's a 3D problem.

I'd suggest the 6-cup Chemex or the V60-02. The Chemex would give you a little more of a unique experience, unique flavor profile and can definitely handle the sizes you're looking for. But, the V60-02 would probably give you the coffee you're looking for and would require very little learning... and it's cheap!

Thanks for this perspective, maybe I should just continue tinkering with the v60 03.
I messed around further this weekend; I found 1100 g water to 80-82 g coffee at 20 grind to work fairly well, provided I agitate with spoon during bloom. When scaling down, I found 550 g water to 40g coffee at 14 grind to be somewhat comparable.

As I think about it, I am somewhat surprised that Hario didn't adjust their hole/opening size for different sizes (01 vs 02 vs 03). This means that with each larger size, the ratio of average coffee size to opening size is going to increase, which makes each size perform differently.

Have you tried out the December Dripper?
Will be curious what you think of the Espro bloom.

DamianWarS

#22: Post by DamianWarS »

Galbzilla wrote:The user above me suggesting that all the V60s are capable of making the same amount of coffee and how different sizes are nonsense.. is... well... nonsense. The V60-01 and 02 have different sized openings and that contributes to a lot.
Useful information and thanks for bringing that up. I only can speak based on my experiences but yours may be different. I got caught up in quite a lot of testing with the 01, 02, and 03 cones as it pertains to the draw down time with small doses on the large brewer. I was trying to test how using the larger brewer with small doses impacted draw down times since there was a greater downward force from the larger volume of water pushing above it. I did a pile of tests and on them and honestly differences IMO were insignificant and flow was the same.

I wasn't testing the flow impacted by the hole but it would be the same result. I'm thinking the hole itself is not designed to narrow the stream or slow it down, it's designed to be large enough that only the coffee bed/filter impacts the flow. Also I think only the 01 has a smaller hole and the 02, 03 are the same. You can test it yourself by timing the draw down with the 01 and 03 (or 02) and the same amount of water with just the 01 filter and see what finishes first. If they are the same time then don't worry about the holes they are big enough that it doesn't matter even if they are slightly different in sizes.

DamianWarS

#23: Post by DamianWarS »

Case17 wrote:As I think about it, I am somewhat surprised that Hario didn't adjust their hole/opening size for different sizes (01 vs 02 vs 03). This means that with each larger size, the ratio of average coffee size to opening size is going to increase, which makes each size perform differently.
from what I can tell only the 01 cone has a small hole size where the 02 and 03 have the same hole size. From my perspective, the holes on all the brewers are big enough that they don't impact the flow. Others may have different perspectives so certainly if you can get a hold of a few different sizes you can find out for yourself the sort of impact the different sizes of brewers have on flow, I have several of them maybe about 15 Hario brewers and do tests like this on them all the time and I personally haven't seen any changes worth noting in relation to drawdown time and the size of brewer. Typically however small brewers use smaller doses/finer grind and larger brewers are larger doses/coarser grind and dose and grind definitely impact flow. I just haven't seen a correlation between the flow and the hole size differences that Hario has in their v60 brewers and provided the dose is small enough and you keep the same grind you can use any v60 brewer size and expect the same result but YMMV.

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yakster
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#24: Post by yakster »

One advantage of the smaller filter cone is that you'll be able to get your gooseneck kettle closer to the coffee bed during the pour.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

Galbzilla

#25: Post by Galbzilla »

Case17 wrote: Have you tried out the December Dripper?
Will be curious what you think of the Espro bloom.
I have never tried the December Dripper.

I tried the Espro bloom just once without a filter just to experiment. I ground too fine and it clogged incredibly easily. Stirring it with a spoon helped unclog it as the clog was due to grinds literally plugging out the drainage holes, which makes me wonder if a coarser grind would work. Stirring with a spoon made it almost empty immediately as well. The coffee was slightly bitter, as I kind of expected, but it wasn't undrinkable or completely uneven. The coffee definitely had some particles floating, more than my french press even if I pressed early, and there was a ton of sludge on the bottom of the cup. I definitely need to test more before I give a final review, but I just don't have any enthusiasm for it. I feel like my V60 and Chemex brews come out so nice there's not really a point to learning another pour over device, especially if it doesn't offer anything super unique. I mean, it does offer the filterless brew which is interesting, I just don't really care. I've been loving my Clever Dripper lately anyways.