No doubt you are right - there are historical influences for everything brewing coffee! See Uker's classic "All About Coffee" history published in 1922 (free scan: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL2327110 ... out_coffee. ) Pourover brewing devices were pretty much around since the 1800's ... start around page 621.

A couple Japanese dates:
1959: Kalita essentially copies Melitta's shape, but uses three holes instead of one - so the pour has more impact. (This is not the Wave, but just in case you ever wondered why the Wave has three holes ...)
1973: KONO (actually KŌNO) introduces the Meimon, the first Japanese cone with a big hole and ribs. Pics in my old thread: KONO Meimon vs. Hario V60

Just to get even more off-topic, both the Hario V60 clear plastic and all KONO's are made with Acrylonitrile-styrene resin. As such, they can't handle brew temps over about 90C - they'll crack/craze. The coloured plastic Hario's are made of Polypropylene, and thus can handle higher temps.

baldheadracing wrote:...
Just to get even more off-topic, both the Hario V60 clear plastic and all KONO's are made with Acrylonitrile-styrene resin. As such, they can't handle brew temps over about 90C - they'll crack/craze. The coloured plastic Hario's are made of Polypropylene, and thus can handle higher temps.

All the history details are awesome and interesting to read. On top of that you just fed me this awfully awesome detail about the V60. Finally I know why my plastic V60 turned ugly fast. I will get a colored plastic one now

I ran across a write-up from Jonathan Gagné who speaks of using the bottom of the Aeropress as a "gravitiy dripper" with positive results. The source is behind a paywall at BH but a version of the article is on Gagné own blog (it just doesn't mention the aeropress). Gagné proposes that most brewers allow what he calls "bypass" or water that escapes out of the filter and bypasses the coffee bed altogether and this has a negative impact on the quality of the extraction. Essentially the ribbed or textured walls of something like a V60 are there for a reason to stop the paper filter from sealing to the wall but the flip side of this is that water may escape along the sides. Gagné says he has had good results using the Aeropress as a gravity dripper even though his brews has gone as long as 10 mins. the keys he indicates are to stop bypass (which an aeropress does), stop clogging, sufficiently agitate and adjusting the brew ratio to match the grind size.

DamianWarS wrote:I ran across a write-up from Jonathan Gangne who speaks of using the bottom of the Aeropress as a "gravitiy dripper" with positive results. The source is behind a paywall at BH but a version of the article is on Gangne's own blog (it just doesn't mention the aeropress). Gangne proposes that most brewers allow what he calls "bypass" or water that escapes out of the filter and bypasses the coffee bed altogether and this has a negative impact on the quality of the extraction. Essentially the ribbed or textured walls of something like a V60 are there for a reason to stop the paper filter from sealing to the wall but the flip side of this is that water may escape along the sides.
...

I can confirm that this actually works with a Aeropress. I had brews of 5-6 minutes with a Comandante setting 16, 20g of a Kenian, 99C Gagne easy water, 30 sec 30g bloom and one pour to 200g of water.
I would actually be interested if maybe a double walled V60 type cone without ribs would allow for a similar cup.

DamianWarS wrote:I ran across a write-up from Jonathan Gangne who speaks of using the bottom of the Aeropress as a "gravitiy dripper" with positive results. The source is behind a paywall at BH but a version of the article is on Gangne's own blog (it just doesn't mention the aeropress). Gangne proposes that most brewers allow what he calls "bypass" or water that escapes out of the filter and bypasses the coffee bed altogether and this has a negative impact on the quality of the extraction. Essentially the ribbed or textured walls of something like a V60 are there for a reason to stop the paper filter from sealing to the wall but the flip side of this is that water may escape along the sides. Gangne says he has had good results using the Aeropress as a gravity dripper even though his brews has gone as long as 10 mins. the keys he indicates are to stop bypass (which an aeropress does), stop clogging, sufficiently agitate and adjusting the brew ratio to match the grind size.

Not long ago he was writing on his blog that he couldn't believe that bypass was a real or significant thing. Now it seems like it's all him and Rao talk about. I'm very curious to see more or try some of these cylinder type brewers they're hyping up. But honestly it really feels like Rao will do anything to be the "first" to do or discovery something, so i tend to be pretty skeptical about his claims.

Some/many consultants need to be thought of as experts dispensing knowledge. It can be very different when one's livelihood depends on people being willing to pay for your knowledge - and your opinions - versus someone whose income doesn't rely on being thought of as an expert.

For example, pick a coffee topic and contrast the approaches of Thompson Owen and Tim Wendelboe vs. Scott Rao and Matt Perger - with James Hoffmann somewhere in-between. They're all incredibly knowledgeable coffee people, but how they communicate that knowledge is very different.

cgibsong002 wrote:Not long ago he was writing on his blog that he couldn't believe that bypass was a real or significant thing. Now it seems like it's all him and Rao talk about. I'm very curious to see more or try some of these cylinder type brewers they're hyping up. But honestly it really feels like Rao will do anything to be the "first" to do or discovery something, so i tend to be pretty skeptical about his claims.

He addresses that saying if you asked him a year earlier he'd say your crazy. I don't know if that makes you feel more confident about his latest remarks but at least he recognises the change in direction. His solution using a v60 is to ensure the water line doesn't get to high which would have a greater effect on bypass. The alternative solution is a flat bottom brewer with a sufficient textured bottom so as to prevent the filter from sealing to the brewer and increasing the surface area where water passes through.

The effect are similar to using a stand alone metal filter where you can visually see water moving on the outside of the filter where water is bypassing the coffee bed. Using paper filters with ridged brewers the same thing is happening you just don't see it as much. Where using a ridgeless one seals the filter to the brewer and the only escape is the bottom part but then it gets clogged. So the ridged system is important in cone brewers to prevent clogging but at the expense of bypass. I think the fact that a ridgeless brewer clogs the filter and the ridged brewers does not agrees with Gagné's suggestion of bypass happening.

baldheadracing wrote:Some/many consultants need to be thought of as experts dispensing knowledge. It can be very different when one's livelihood depends on people being willing to pay for your knowledge - and your opinions - versus someone whose income doesn't rely on being thought of as an expert.

For example, pick a coffee topic and contrast the approaches of Thompson Owen and Tim Wendelboe vs. Scott Rao and Matt Perger - with James Hoffmann somewhere in-between. They're all incredibly knowledgeable coffee people, but how they communicate that knowledge is very different.

It's true. Gagne's conclusions are quite abstract and at the cost of practicality but I don't think that his goal. He's a scientist so approaches it as he would his trade. Perger get caught up in the abstracts too and likes to balance that line. Rao is a coffee consultant and tends to be fiercely pragmatic as his clients need solutions that work where Hoffmann tends to go off on his special interests but less practical solutions (like his pumpkin latte). I suspect guys like Wendelboe, Davies and Baca are more plugged into the cafe scene (since they own their own cafes) and so have solutions more catered to that market. So you have to consider where the source is coming from and how it fits in your coffee world view. It's tough when you have a cheap grinder and lack good options for coffee, in a training environment I think you need to gauge your market and offer solutions based on their needs not ones out of reach.

It's Gagné, not Gangne. I love his blog and enjoy his scientific approach. It looks like a lot of work!

Of course he's not infallible. One should read his conclusions with appropriate skepticism. Coffee is complicated. The fact that he changes his mind about something is a positive quality. It means he has an open mind. We all make errors.

He does have some small monetization aspect to his blog in the form of amazon product referrals. I don't think it affects his writing but I did buy one of those products he pimps and discovered it to be a piece of junk! I thought: wait, he's a scientist, didn't he test this thing himself? He used it in at least one analysis he wrote up. I returned it for a refund which possibly caused him to lose the $1 or whatever he would have made. But it soured my opinion of him for a brief spell.

I wish there were more coffee people like him.

DamianWarS wrote:It's true. Gangne's conclusions are quite abstract and at the cost of practicality but I don't think that his goal. He's a scientist so approaches it as he would his trade. Perger get caught up in the abstracts too and likes to balance that line. Rao is a coffee consultant and tends to be fiercely pragmatic as his clients need solutions that work where Hoffmann tends to go off on his special interests but less practical solutions (like his pumpkin latte). I suspect guys like Wendelboe, Davies and Baca are more plugged into the cafe scene (since they own their own cafes) and so have solutions more catered to that market. So you have to consider where the source is coming from and how it fits in your coffee world view. It's tough when you have a cheap grinder and lack good options for coffee, in a training environment I think you need to gauge your market and offer solutions based on their needs not ones out of reach.

To clarify, I didn't mention M. Gagné amongst the people that I listed; and when I was comparing the people that I did list, I was referring to degrees of dogmatism.