'New' Tetsu Kasuya V60 method (with [VIDEO])

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
baldheadracing
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#1: Post by baldheadracing » Nov 03, 2019, 7:06 pm

Haven't seen this discussed here - the method is still under development, but the idea is to emphasis the sweetness in coffee:

- coffee roasted as an omni-roast
- 1:12 brew ratio
- 25g ground very fine(!) "5 on an EK"
- 95C/96C water (203F/205F)
- 300g water poured in 15 seconds, first 10 seconds circle pour, last five seconds centre pour; that's it, that's all - no bloom/"only bloom"
- let drain, no stirring, no spinning, no nothing - so 'high-and-dry' grounds(!)
- about 1:30 total brew time

I'm not too sure about this method. It does seem to mute acidity and bring out sweetness, but that could well be confirmation bias. Pouring 300g in 15 seconds definitely felt weird, and it was very weird watching the slurry in a full dripper bubble away throughout the draw-down.

Tetsu Kasuya (2016 Brewer's Cup champion) demonstrated the method while being interviewed by Patrik Rolf (2019 Brewer's Cup runner-up): (15:47, but the last five minutes are espresso)
... and if you are interested in Patrik Rolf's Brewer's Cup method, he explains it in this video (about 10 minutes):
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

flix67

#2: Post by flix67 » Nov 09, 2019, 3:13 am

Thanks for sharing!

I lean towards the criticism on coffeeadastra, https://coffeeadastra.com/2018/11/30/br ... er-coffee/. There's a lot of pseudoscience around coffee, and as Tetsu says in the video at ~8:30 regarding this technique, "sometimes good, sometimes not good." There isn't a clear explanation for why this is the case, and exactly why he's decided this is a method of generating sweeter coffee (though based on his reaction it sounds like the cup he brewed was not sweet).

Finer grounds lead to more bitter brews, so this is certainly a counter-intuitive means of getting a sweeter cup! Anyhow, despite my skepticism, I'll definitely give it a try.

MikeTheBlueCow

#3: Post by MikeTheBlueCow » replying to flix67 » Nov 09, 2019, 8:40 am


I would expect this method from Tetsu is sometimes good/not good because of how fine the grind is and this requires not just accuracy with pour timing but also proper grooming and pour pattern which will affect channeling. When trying to go finer and finer, I got more and more variability and it became frustrating.

Finer grinds do not necessarily mean more bitter, but they do make it more likely to get bitterness with this variability aspect. I was surprised how fine I could go, how hot I could increase my water temp, and how much longer my brew time was, and still get good results. I don't know how fine a 5 on an EK is, but also his restricted brew ratio helps improve sweetness.

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Almico
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#4: Post by Almico » Nov 09, 2019, 10:53 am

I tried it this morning with a very light roasted Yemen, a light roasted Costa Rica and a medium roasted Sumatra. I used my R120 at the same point on the scale as an EK "5".

The Yemen was surprisingly sweet, yet still complex. Nice mouthfeel and acidity.

The Costa Rica was juicy, syrupy, but not as sweet.

The Sumatra was very sweet and still retained some tobacco and a bit of cinnamon, but the edges were more rounded. Heavy body.

This is understandable since it is such a strong brew ratio @ 12:1. This recipe is similar to cold brewing. It's pulling out the easier to extract sugars and caffeine, yet the hotter water and finer grind will still release some aromatics and nuance, but there's insufficient brew time to extract unfriendly distillates. I get a similar result brewing medium roasted coffees with a room temp bloom, and 175* 2:00 flush.

The CR and Sumatra are coffees were brew at the bar regularly and know them well. For the record, no one preferred this pour over method to the 15:1 batch brew versions of the same coffees made on the Fetco. There is something missing. But considering the very little effort and quick brew time, it has a place at a coffee bar at the expense of using more coffee.

winslette

#5: Post by winslette » Nov 09, 2019, 2:16 pm

MikeTheBlueCow wrote: I would expect this method from Tetsu is sometimes good/not good because of how fine the grind is and this requires not just accuracy with pour timing but also proper grooming and pour pattern which will affect channeling. When trying to go finer and finer, I got more and more variability and it became frustrating.

Finer grinds do not necessarily mean more bitter, but they do make it more likely to get bitterness with this variability aspect. I was surprised how fine I could go, how hot I could increase my water temp, and how much longer my brew time was, and still get good results. I don't know how fine a 5 on an EK is, but also his restricted brew ratio helps improve sweetness.
For an EK43s reference, my burrs chirp at 0 and I do 25g coffee : 400g water in 3 pours plus bloom at 12 on my EK. This routinely gets me in the 1.40-1.45 range for TDS with good taste. Espresso is typically .8-1.2 on it as well.

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Almico
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#6: Post by Almico » replying to winslette » Nov 09, 2019, 2:30 pm

Yep, that would be a normal 16:1 ratio with bloom. But that is not what we are talking about here.

MikeTheBlueCow

#7: Post by MikeTheBlueCow » Nov 10, 2019, 8:13 am

Almico wrote:Yep, that would be a normal 16:1 ratio with bloom. But that is not what we are talking about here.
It isn't, but winslette was trying to provide a reference for EK settings for those of us that are unfamiliar with them (I am the one that brought up this question). The given reference points help me see what a 5 on an EK might translate to in my grinder.
winslette wrote:For an EK43s reference, my burrs chirp at 0 and I do 25g coffee : 400g water in 3 pours plus bloom at 12 on my EK. This routinely gets me in the 1.40-1.45 range for TDS with good taste. Espresso is typically .8-1.2 on it as well.
It seems like it is between espresso and pour over, but closer to espresso. I was playing around with a grind size near this with my Lido 3 (not the same, of course) - this is the point where I also found much inconsistency as Tetsu mentioned. I'll use this fine-ness in an AeroPress with the same 1:12 ratio and it can give a pleasant result with the right brew time; but it gives me less clarity in a pour over with a 1:15 ratio. I can get better clarity with the 1:15 pour over if I keep it just a couple notches coarser.

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Almico
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#8: Post by Almico » Nov 10, 2019, 10:14 am

MikeTheBlueCow wrote:It isn't, but winslette was trying to provide a reference for EK settings for those of us that are unfamiliar with them (I am the one that brought up this question). The given reference points help me see what a 5 on an EK might translate to in my grinder.
Or, you could google it:

Image

5 is not terribly fine. I would use that setting for an aeropress.

crunchybean

#9: Post by crunchybean » Nov 10, 2019, 11:14 am

I've basically been doing something fairly similar for some time now with some minor differences. I microwave my V60 with a wet filter (tap water) first, then rinse it with the kettle. Bloom for 30s, and whisk with a chopstick so the slurry spins, after Ive poured in the 250g at once. Generally the same flavor profile as everyone else but I haven't roasted anything as a sour bomb to see how that would fare. All my roasts have been generally fairly meh lately so its hard to tell atm. I'll try Tetsu's and April's methods and see if thats different.

winslette

#10: Post by winslette » Nov 10, 2019, 11:26 am

Almico wrote:Or, you could google it:

5 is not terribly fine. I would use that setting for an aeropress.
The question was asked since he didn't know a reference to a 5 on an EK. I provided a reference for how I typically do V60 pour overs, and even had TDS numbers (I measure nearly every morning). I even went as far as to mention my model and where I have the burrs calibrated to. This all matters because while you just linked a picture of an old EK43 dial, the 5 is different than on mine because the newer s and standard go to 16.