Lifting the Kalita Wave off the cup it sits on fixes the stalling issues? - Page 2

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
bobR

#11: Post by bobR »



This is the vent hole on my December Dripper which is essentially a Kalita Wave design. It prevents any pressure build up from too good a seal between the rim and cup. I'm surprised the Kalita Wave in stainless does not have this.

baldheadracing
Team HB

#12: Post by baldheadracing »

bobR wrote:This is the vent hole on my December Dripper which is essentially a Kalita Wave design. It prevents any pressure build up from too good a seal between the rim and cup. I'm surprised the Kalita Wave in stainless does not have this.
Nope, no vent hole. These drippers seem to be designed to be used on a server, not on a cup. (The server's spout prevents pressure build-up.) I have other drippers that have the same issue, including another dripper made in Tsubame.

Note these drippers are not the regular metal Wave. They're way more expensive due to where they are made. Tsubame is a city in Japan famous for traditional hand-hammered copperware. (Tsubame is essentially a protected origin.) Coffee tastes the same, though :wink:.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

cactus_farmer (original poster)

#13: Post by cactus_farmer (original poster) »

Yeah, I noticed the regular Kalita Wave has a hole drilled into the base to prevent this seal issue.

Kinda strange (and, imo a design flaw) why the Tsubame doesn't have it? Even if it is meant to be used on serving carafes, what would be lost by adding in this feature? Then you could use it on carafes and cups.

Has anyone experimented with drilling a hole in the base of the Tsubame? Just want to be sure that it actually does resolve the issue before I go ahead and deform a pretty expensive dripper...

baldheadracing
Team HB

#14: Post by baldheadracing » replying to cactus_farmer »

My guess - guess - is that a hole would disturb the aesthetics for some folks. Tsubame ware can have a certain unblemished look.

However, I also think that you have a good point, so it is maybe an Apple-esque "You're holding it wrong" issue. I can't remember ever seeing a dripper directly on a cup in Japanese pictures or videos - it is always a server or a stand. If the design never anticipated the use, is the design flawed when it doesn't work for that use? OTOH, almost all the Japanese drippers that I have prevent this problem, e.g., with ribs. For example, the Hario V60 Copper also has a flat base that can cause the same exact problem (voice of experience here :oops: ), yet every other of the too-many V60s that I have use ribs or an air gap somewhere.

As for drilling, I wouldn't, but the purity of the design is why I got the Tsubame. (I have no other Kalita brewers. I use an Origami for Wave filters.) Perhaps making ribs by taping/gluing a piece of paperclip or toothpick to the underside of the dripper will prevent the issue while preserving aesthetics. Doing so temporarily will also assure you that drilling will resolve the issue.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

cactus_farmer (original poster)

#15: Post by cactus_farmer (original poster) »

baldheadracing wrote:For example, the Hario V60 Copper also has a flat base that can cause the same exact problem (voice of experience here :oops: ), yet every other of the too-many V60s that I have use ribs or an air gap somewhere.
I also have the Hario V60 copper (need to stop buying pricey drippers) - and for some reason I don't get the brew stalling problem when brewing into a cup like I do with the Kalita Wave Tsubame. I guess it's because even though a seal may be created between the bottom of the dripper and the top of the cup with the copper V60 (just like it is with the Wave Tsubame) - it doesn't actually matter because the drainage hole is so big it can't be blocked by the filter paper being dragged down into it.

baldheadracing
Team HB

#16: Post by baldheadracing » replying to cactus_farmer »

To be precise, for the V60 Copper, you have to use the exact right(wrong) diameter cup so that the (bad) seal won't be affected by the little raised area and the two rivets holding the handle. The filter paper also has to seal against the sides (nor bottom), just like Wave filters. As a digression, that sealing of the paper against the sides will rarely happen if the filters are used dry, i.e., without rinsing immediately before use.

As for stopping buying pricey drippers - you and me both :oops:.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

cactus_farmer (original poster)

#17: Post by cactus_farmer (original poster) »

I've gone back to using my normal (non-Tsubame) Kalita Wave - and I find that at identical grind settings, beans, dose and technique - it consistently draws down about 30 seconds faster than my Hario V60.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Most people agree that the V60 is the faster brewer - it has the much larger drainage hole after all.

I frequently see it theorized that the Kalita Wave brews slightly more full-bodied/textured cups than the more clarity-focused and acidic Hario V60 cups - is that with the assumption that the V60 draws down faster than the V60? So if, for some reason, your Wave draws down faster than your V60 you'd find the opposite to be true - i.e. that the Wave creates more acidic and clarity-focussed cups? Or is there some other factor(s) besides draw down time that is impacting flavour?

Does anyone else find that their Wave (standard stainless steel version) draws down faster than their V60? And why would this be the case? I mean, the Wave clearly draws down water slower than the V60, but once you add ground coffee to the equation it somehow draws down faster - not quite sure what is going on there...

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yakster
Supporter ♡

#18: Post by yakster »

Flat bottom vs cone is likely what's going on. Thinner bed and shorter brew path without narrowing the flow as much.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

cactus_farmer (original poster)

#19: Post by cactus_farmer (original poster) »

It's interesting, I always thought that cone shaped drippers gave you less body and more clarity because they have a bigger drainage hole so the draw down time should be quicker.

But now I've found the opposite to be true - the flat bottomed drippers actually result in a quicker draw down time (and therefore more clarity and less body) because the coffee bed ends up shaped wider and shallower - so there's less depth of bed for the water to permeate through...

The Kalita Wave for me gives higher clarity, lower body brews than the Hario V60 - but most of what you read online suggests the opposite is true...

baldheadracing
Team HB

#20: Post by baldheadracing »

Note there is also a difference in filter papers with V60-02's - the original Japanese filter factory (now only available in box 40's, no tab) vs. the other Japanese factory (loosely packaged 100 packs, tab) vs. European market (tightly packaged 100 packs, tab). I only have experience with the originals, but others say the Euro market filters have a much slower drawdown than the original V60 filters. As you are in the U.K., then you may be using the filters made in Europe, and that might explain the differences between your experience and what you have read online.

I would say that the drainage hole(s) have no effect as long as one is pouring slow enough that the paper filter and coffee bed (and bypass) are the limiting factors to flow, and not the dripper's hole(s), e.g., in a Melitta cone, the small hole determines flow rate.

Hmm. Maybe I should brew a V60 and a Wave this morning ... :wink:
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada