James Hoffmann on brewing better dark roasts

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
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yakster
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#1: Post by yakster »

Interesting video, especially the bit about the hot bloom, something I do with the Bruer cold drip.
-Chris

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DamianWarS
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#2: Post by DamianWarS »

yakster wrote:Interesting video, especially the bit about the hot bloom, something I do with the Bruer cold drip.

video
I thought it was a clever idea to do the hot bloom and it's the first I've heard of it. I'm just noticing in the comments of the video there is some discussion about the roast level that he is calling "dark" where others seem to want to call it medium. light, medium, dark are relative terms it's just in a specialty vacuum (where JH is coming from) it's relative to the development between 1st and 2nd crack where everything else is not longer considered drinkable. grocery store coffee and places like SB label a lot of things as medium that are clearly beyond 2nd crack but the language is ambiguous and they are using their own scale to determine what is medium and what is dark which is fine it just not specialty-focused and maybe more consumer-driven.

Acavia
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#3: Post by Acavia »

To me, and I consider myself part of specialty coffee, that "dark" coffee presented in the video seems medium to medium dark as far as color. Full City Roast for American terms. I notice no oil, and it does not appear to be in the 2nd crack. I have been brewing and drinking Wendelboe coffee recently. It looks about same as Hoffmann's light version, in that video. So it seems his light example is Scandinavian light.

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#4: Post by DamianWarS »

Acavia wrote:To me, and I consider myself part of specialty coffee, that "dark" coffee presented in the video seems medium to medium dark as far as color. Full City Roast for American terms. I notice no oil, and it does not appear to be in the 2nd crack. I have been brewing and drinking Wendelboe coffee recently. It looks about same as Hoffmann's light version, in that video. So it seems his light example is Scandinavian light.
in a specialty vacuum, full city is dark and second crack is burnt and I think JH, intentional or not, demonstrates this as he has what seems to be a full city roast and calls it dark. second crack is never a target in specialty unless you're trying to season your roaster.

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#5: Post by walr00s replying to DamianWarS »

The tone of the video is a bit condescending. At one point, he is trying to convince dark roast drinkers to not use so much cream and sugar with their drinks, implying that they don't know that they're just drinking bad coffee and better coffee will taste better and not need to be covered up...And my palate agrees with him. But I do think there are plenty of people out there who enjoy the taste of dark roast and prefer it to lighter roast, regardless of their preference for amount of additives. Some people just don't like floral/fruity coffee. So it seemed like a bit of an odd approach to me as far as making a persuasive argument.

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#6: Post by DamianWarS replying to walr00s »

I think again this is in a speciality vacuum where a dark roast is a full city roast (what he was using) or just before second crack which I drink all the time but I do not like second crack roasts. There was a time, like many, I thought the darker the better and I drank coffee black with no sugar and I loved lattes from SB. Today I do not enjoy coffee from SB and I would probably start to urge if I drank the dark roasts I used to drink. I can immediately taste the difference of this carbon/burnt taste but that's the coffee my wife enjoys so we stock both, and I'm fine with that.

Where I'm living robusta is the household coffee and it is treated as commodity coffee and roasted past second crack. Robusta is harsher to begin with and I can't stomach the stuff straight up but it's not served that way and it's always mixed with sugar. So it makes this sweet drink masking all the stuff you don't like. In my head I have to compartmentalize this and put this drink into essentially a sweet coffee like drink so when I am served it (which happens often) I'm not comparing it with coffee but rather with itself look or other sweet drinks and I can enjoy it that way because I'm looking for the sugar now to identify the drink.

I think JH maybe touching on a similar point, people are not drinking coffee they are drinking sweet, creamy coffee-like drinks. But I disagree with JH and I don't think they are doing this because coffee is too harsh they are doing it because that's the drink they know as coffee. Even if they follow everything JH says I don't think they would like it because it doesn't check the box in their head of what coffee is to them.

When I dropped milk and sugar (like over 20 years ago) I did it cold turkey and at first it was horrible (this was donut store coffee of the late 90s so understandable) but over time my brain made the switch and associated this as coffee and I began to enjoy it but I found I couldn't go back and sugar/milk in coffee was no longer coffee to me and I didn't enjoy it. This has migrated into a preference of before second crack roasts and lighter roasts (which early on it was the opposite) and now I don't like second crack roasts.

Home roasting has made me appreciate acidity in a cup and finally understand what "brightness" or "lively" cupping notes mean because these were flavours I was targetting and once I hit them it clicked and it was less about liking or disliking and more about finding and identifying them. And now I enjoy them more.

I think anyone can make a change but it's not as simple as JH suggests from a brew receipe and it takes time and commitment to change your preference of coffee. I've tried to convert my wife but it just doesn't work that easy and she's continues to like her dark roasts.

ohwhen
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#7: Post by ohwhen »

walr00s wrote:The tone of the video is a bit condescending.
I don't know, he says at the outset that he wants people to enjoy coffee more no matter their preference. He later says ""Even if your putting cream or sugar into it, it tastes that little more enjoyable or pleasurable" and goes on to say maybe you'll want to try it with less stuff added. Hardly seemed condescending to me.

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#8: Post by drgary »

I really like James Hoffman's suggestion of a hot bloom and will have to try it. (And I find his tone gracious, actually, encouraging people to brew a better cup at their favored roast level or the roast level that is available to them.)

This is slightly off topic for the video, but it has been mentioned enough in the thread that I want to comment. I usually don't go to second crack but my darkest roasts spend 10 seconds there before I drop them. Mr. Hoffman is discussing coffees with some oil sheen on the surface, and that's the most I'll get with a brief second crack. I like to brew those coffees cooler, often at 178°F / 81°C, within the range he mentions. At that temperature they taste sweet and chocolatey and when roasted well, they retain other complex flavors, like distillates (such as rum), ripe blackberries, earthiness, peppery spice, etc. Depending on the coffee and brew method, I may brew it hotter -- which brings me back to trying his hot bloom suggestion. These coffees are lovely to drink without cream and sugar, but with more intense coffees they may be perfect for a milk drink. The aim is to bring the best out of that particular coffee rather than be chained to a trend. Last night I served an immersion Clever Dripper brew of Bali decaf roasted briefly into second crack to friends after dinner. I had updosed it a little. One of them was stunned that it wasn't bitter and asked me how to brew coffee that way. He will most likely follow up. I typically use that coffee for my wife's morning cappuccino. Last week I served an AeroPress of that coffee to a friend, whose response was "yum!" At the same time we sampled a coffee roasted to a similar level earlier that day and brewed in an ibrik, then filtered. I had settled on the practice recommended by Mr. Hoffman, which is to filter the coffee through paper. Different from Mr. Hoffman's suggestion of a coarse grind in this instance, an almost powdered roast with very fresh coffee in an ibrik works very well. My friends also loved to taste that one black. I am always roasting specialty grade coffee, and these are only decafs when serving my wife or drinking coffee late in the day. I am not alone in liking this roast level in my rotation.

A review of our coffees and roasting forums will find renewed interest in dark roasts as worth exploring. I like the method of aiming for a declining rate of rise of bean temperature into first crack but then departing from that Scott Rao method to crank on more heat, develop the outside of the coffee into second crack and retain roast level flavors in the interior.

For roasting and brewing, these approaches are not very different from enjoying a Paul Prudhomme recipe of Cajun prime rib, where the interior of the meat is medium rare, moving outward to medium and still juicy, with a barbecued herb and pepper crust.
Gary
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Jofari
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#9: Post by Jofari »

This reminds me of a home-barista thread from a few years ago, where folks were suggesting that a cold bloom was beneficial for dark roasts. I remember trying it at the time and thinking that it worked well at decreasing the roasty bitter notes. Here's the thread for anyone interested in reading: LINK

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yakster (original poster)
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#10: Post by yakster (original poster) »

I remember that cold bloom thread well. Next time I get my hands on a dark(er) roasted coffee that I want to try as pour-over I hope I remember to try brewing with a cold bloom, hot bloom, and a regular bloom.

One of the inspirations for the cold bloom was that the brewing equipment (Behmor Brazen) wouldn't allow us to decrease the brew temperature below 190 F (88 C) so we compensated with a cold bloom at the start. With a manual pour-over you could just brew in the mid 170s (80 C) with a normal or a hot bloom.

With James Hoffmann's method, I suppose I'd need two kettles, one for the hot bloom and one for the main pour since I wouldn't expect the hot bloom's temp to drop enough to use one for both unless I craftily was able to add cold water to the kettle to precisely lower the temp for the main pour. I'm just not sure I'm that crafty.
-Chris

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