I posted a few times about my horrible coffee, and I'm 90% sure it's the grind size that's the culprit, too fine to be exact. When I've played around with grind size, I realized that with the more coarse grinds I seem to make a better cup, although it's usually pretty weak. I really should know the answer to this, but what would be the negative consequences of grinding really coarse for pour over, say French press size? Can I just grind very coarse and lower the ratio to something like 10 or 12 to 1?

The negative consequence is you use more coffee, and the coarser the grind, the more that the grinder and burrs make a difference - although some people say the exact opposite. This is just my experience.

Grinding coarser, dosing more, extracting less, and possibly adding water afterwards (bypass brewing) is a practice in Aeropress championships and Brewer's cup. It gives a "punchier" coffee that gives a WOW factor for judging, but some say results in a caricature of the coffee's true characteristics. I'll also do it more-or-less when I've screwed up a roast or drinking a lesser-quality coffee.

For example, I wasn't happy with the last roast I did. A normal extraction just leaves a papery aftertaste when using a "normal" Aeropress method like James Hoffmann's ... so instead of Hoffmann's 11g:200g, I grind coarser and dose 18g. My next step is more extreme like Tetsu Kasuya's 30g:120g Aeropress bypass brew https://sprudge.com/aeropress-recipe-wo ... 87979.html

(I'm picking Aeropress just because I hadn't used mine all last year, but a friend is using hers regularly, so I thought that I should use the Aeropress for a while.)

Anyhow, I haven't read your other posts, but the first step that I'll always recommend is cupping. Do not use a pourover method or any method with a paper filter. Pick a coffee, not too dark, not too light. Cup five different grind sizes with the same brew ratio; pick the cup that you like best. Then cup five different amounts of coffee and decide which brew ratio you like best. Pick another coffee from a different origin; repeat.

Good luck!

"You can" is probably always the right response. But I'm not so sure that would be your solution.

Having had a glance at your other posts, have you considered your brew temperature at all? I had that sort of a problem some time ago and the solution for me was to drop the brew temperature by a lot.

If brewed too hot the coffee does get kind of boring and hollow, tasteless. Not necessarily bitter but it looses the sweetness and just tastes dry.

Boringness can happen also if brewing too cold but it's slightly different. Not sure if I can now describe it well... Should make a cup with too cold water and see

Hi Drew,

Yeah, give it a try. Lowering the ratio should increase the drink concentration (a.k.a. strength or TDS).

Another experiment would be to use the coarse grind but compensate with an increased number of pours and thus the total brew time. For example, if you normally used 2 pours leading to say 2:15 brew time with your coarse grind size and the drink was weak, try using 4 pours spaced evenly leading to 2:30 or 2:45 brew time. That also should increase the drink concentration (a.k.a. strength or TDS).

Shout if I'm not making sense please

I'm a big fan of the Tetsu pour over method which uses a coarser grind. I find that they are sweeter and can be less harsh. I shoot for a total draw down between 3:15-3:30. It goes like this:

20g dose
0s - 60g bloom pour using quite a bit of agitation with the stream to stir the grounds
45s - 60g pour (fresh coffee sometimes blooms again)
1:30 - 60g pour with a slight swirl to level the bed if needed
2:15 - 60g pour
3:00 - 60g pour

Those are very rough numbers. I typically go by when the water level just touches the coffee bed I'll do my next pour, so don't rely strictly on time markers if you decide to try it. I typically use the Melodrip now and don't have to swirl anymore because it doesn't disrupt the bed.

ojt wrote:"You can" is probably always the right response. But I'm not so sure that would be your solution.

Having had a glance at your other posts, have you considered your brew temperature at all? I had that sort of a problem some time ago and the solution for me was to drop the brew temperature by a lot.

If brewed too hot the coffee does get kind of boring and hollow, tasteless. Not necessarily bitter but it looses the sweetness and just tastes dry.

Boringness can happen also if brewing too cold but it's slightly different. Not sure if I can now describe it well... Should make a cup with too cold water and see

Dry is a good descriptor for my current coffee, and I have definitely considered the brew temperature being too high. Yesterday and today I lowered the temperature and the cup was much better, still not great though. I still don't understand, since previously I would brew with even hotter water and was making excellent cups. I'm going to continue to use the "cooler" water and see if I can get consistent.

Milligan wrote:I'm a big fan of the Tetsu pour over method which uses a coarser grind. I find that they are sweeter and can be less harsh. I shoot for a total draw down between 3:15-3:30. It goes like this:

20g dose
0s - 60g bloom pour using quite a bit of agitation with the stream to stir the grounds
45s - 60g pour (fresh coffee sometimes blooms again)
1:30 - 60g pour with a slight swirl to level the bed if needed
2:15 - 60g pour
3:00 - 60g pour

Those are very rough numbers. I typically go by when the water level just touches the coffee bed I'll do my next pour, so don't rely strictly on time markers if you decide to try it. I typically use the Melodrip now and don't have to swirl anymore because it doesn't disrupt the bed.

I'll second this method. One additional note is I find the last 3 pours can go 60/60/60, 90/90, or all 180 at once and gives me a way to dial clarity vs body with different coffees. Adopting this method dramatically improved my pourover results with the V60.

Drewskie wrote:Dry is a good descriptor for my current coffee, and I have definitely considered the brew temperature being too high. Yesterday and today I lowered the temperature and the cup was much better, still not great though. I still don't understand, since previously I would brew with even hotter water and was making excellent cups. I'm going to continue to use the "cooler" water and see if I can get consistent.

I don't know what it is but I've had something similar happen to my brews. I suspect the grinder starting to create more fines, and/or me getting more experienced or just change tastes.

Anyway, even if my brewer (Origami) is quite different, for reference I'll leave here my current go-to method. I usually now do an "inverted" method of 100g + 100g + 50 pours, 15g dose. I start with water at around 90-93 degrees and let it cool off during the brew. Only if the coffee feels like it's missing some sweetness or character will I increase the temperature. I may also tweak the pours or agitate more in various phases depending on what I feel is lacking.

The basic thought with the above is that acidic compounds (the good stuff, fruitiness) are extracted early, the sweet and mellow ones after that, and bitter / harsh at the end of the brew. So I try to extract less towards the end. Probably a huge oversimplification but that's what I'm going with for now.

I have also done the tetsu 4-6 method, and liked it, but lately I get too much harshness with it.

Milligan wrote:I'm a big fan of the Tetsu pour over method which uses a coarser grind. I find that they are sweeter and can be less harsh. I shoot for a total draw down between 3:15-3:30. It goes like this:

20g dose
0s - 60g bloom pour using quite a bit of agitation with the stream to stir the grounds
45s - 60g pour (fresh coffee sometimes blooms again)
1:30 - 60g pour with a slight swirl to level the bed if needed
2:15 - 60g pour
3:00 - 60g pour

Those are very rough numbers. I typically go by when the water level just touches the coffee bed I'll do my next pour, so don't rely strictly on time markers if you decide to try it. I typically use the Melodrip now and don't have to swirl anymore because it doesn't disrupt the bed.

I mostly use the 4:6 because of the more coarse grind, but even with that method my coffee has been really underwhelming. My normal ratios are 33/500 and I will normally just do five even pours of 100 grams. I haven't tried it with lower water temperature yet though, that's next on the list.

Are you brewing a 02 size V60? I've tried brewing 32-33g/500g w/ Hoffmann's 5x recipe and I'd say I tend to get results that are slightly overextracted for my preferences.

Have you tried brewing something more like 20g/300g? I tend to get faster brews with more interesting acidity with this dose/ratio.