redbone wrote:Six p.o. seems a lot. I) One to saturate grinds and stirr. 2) Pour to top of basket or 90% of volume required. 3) Small pour 10% of remaining desired volume on inside of filter just to move stuck grinds into centre. A couple of shimmy and shakes aka Rao shuffle.
That's a method I don't think I've seen before, but good to know.
namelessone wrote:You might grind bit coarser when doing 6 pours. However again it comes down to what works consistently, I've also had good brews from doing only one-two pours, but didn't find it as repeatable.
You can do 10 brews using each method, measure & rate each and then you can probably see some trends.
Coarser when doing 6 pours would be my first reaction to the difference. I might try going coarser and see if I can produce the same cup with 6 pours. Not that I have any reason to deviate from what works just now, but who knows how long it will last. I would like to settle on a recipe that is as repeatable and consistent as I can get from a V60, and the 6 pour is one I've been recommended other places from people I would like to believe know a thing or two about coffee. Maybe I'll brew one with my old recipe and one with this one and check the EY of both to see what it says.
When doing 2 pours I have to pour pretty fast to get it in there before 30 seconds has lapsed. Today's brews were 50g bloom (no stir because I think the amount of water is sufficient to hydrate the grounds), 100g from 30s to 50s, 100g from 1:00 to 1:20, drawdown 2:20. First time it went down in 2:50 (IIRC), but since then it's been more around 2:20. I'm getting some high and dries, but this coffee is pretty foamy compared to what I usually brew. I have probably been pouring more on the filter/edges than I should have up till now, having read opinions from various people that it didn't matter. Not that I try to hit the edges more than necessary, but a few drops here and there to get some grounds off the filter. I have made 4-5 brews with this method now and still happy with it. It feels a bit violent pouring 100g in 20 seconds compared to the 35g in 15s I've done before, but the coffee is good.
The current setting on my C40 gives me around 10-13% < 400 according to my notes, but it might be a bit too fine still. How much do you change the pouring regime when dialling in a coffee? If you stick to the same grind, what would your ranges be? Is 6 pours a middle point and you go up to 8 and down to 4, or somethinge else? How does the rest of the recipe change when changing pours? Are there any rules you follow, like pouring within such and such time? Is the effect ultimately faster and slower brews, extracting more and less?
U2jewel wrote:Good to hear you're feeling the progress. Just to answer some questions you had, to tie up the loose ends. Since you mentioned your preference for light Nordic roasts, my answers will be in specific reference to that.
1) The drawdown ballpark time I strive for is 2:20 to 2:40. The moment it goes beyond 3:10, I never say never and always try the brew, but it's never to my liking. With the lightest of roasts, the very last pour (however many you choose) is the biggest challenge and indicator. Difficult to achieve without under extracting, but I strive for an even and comparable draw down (to the earlier pours) for the last pour. If it can manage this, then it's going to be clean, most likely sweet and low on astrigency.
2) Rarely applicable to light roasts, but to shape and modify a taste profile of the brew, changing the ratio is an excellent way to customize the drink to your liking. Sometimes I dilute the finished brew with hot water after intentionally making a lower ratio pour. For example, 13 parts brew to 2 parts water.
3) cooking a roast beef or steak, I find many parallels to brewing coffee. I started and stuck with Rao method for the longest of time until I came to realize that there were ways to customize it to my liking. For years also, I was told to sear the steak before it goes into the oven. Well.. I reverse sear now. The 4:6 method has shown me what's possible.
4) Hard to answer clearly and definitively, but I feel it does. Not only does temperature work as a catalyst at which the extraction rate is happening (which is also dictated by p.o rate and frequency), I feel it defines what is allowed to extract. What that chemical is, I don't know. But using boiling water or thereabouts will bring out from the grinds flavors which sometimes I don't want in the cup.
There's hot brew and cold brew. I guess what I'm talking about is in between.
1) What dose would the 2:20 to 2:40 brews be applicable to? You mentioned sometimes making 12g and sometimes 30g. 2:20 is what I've been getting now with 15.6g/250g, and very good brews.
2) That's an easy way to do it. At least to dilute. Not so easy to increase strength once the brew is done. This might be something I could play with when my brews are consistent and good tasting. I haven't felt like I've found the spot where I'd like to make smaller changes so far.
3) Very interesting. I might have to give that method a go after all then. Should I just start with the original recipe or do you know of any resources online in articles or forums that might be helpful? The recipe uses the moments where all the water from the previous brew has drawn down as the starting point of the next pour, but how does this work across different grinders with different grind quality? Do you just adjust grind until it starts tasting good? Are there any suggested numbers or even timings of each pour for various grinders? I would expect the timing of an EK43, a C40 and a Porlex being a bit different.
4) With light roasted beans my impression is that people don't wander too low in temperature, but I could try some experiments down towards 95C. My impression is that we just don't know how it all works on a chemical level, but base theories on experience, and if enough people find it makes a difference, I suppose it's worth giving it a go. This is also something I've planned to try once I got a repeatable brew I liked. As long as I've been making overly astringent brews and lacking consistency, I haven't felt that temperature is what I should look at. Which is why I've kept it constant at just off boil. I don't know if too high temperature can really ruin a good brew if the other parameters align, but maybe that it can make an already decent brew a bit better.
I like to think of the different variables in terms of how big of an impact they make.
Looking strictly at extraction yield, most variables come down to: 1) grind size, 2) pour regime, 3) temperature. In my head, grind size is the one creating the biggest impact (of course depending on how much you adjust) and what you want to dial in first. Then there's the pouring regime, where you can work with the area given by the grind. Once the grind size is set, there's a limit to how much you can alter it with pour regime (within reasonable limits). Last comes temperature, where you can make even smaller changes to the extraction yield in a somewhat consistent matter.
I tried to illustrate it. The numbers are just to try explaining, it's not based on anything and probably wrong. I might also have the entire thing wrong and that you can move the EY more with temperature.
This is partly the reason why I've been adjusting grind rather than pour regime between various beans. If one bean taste great at 22% and another at 20%, would I be able to go between the two with just changing the pour regime?
Again, thanks for all the replies. This is very helpful!