Espro Pourover (Kickstarter) - Page 4

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
culturesub

#31: Post by culturesub »

runningonespresso47 wrote:video
Thanks!

My full review of this dripper is basically this- its horrible. It has multiple problems that are just really hard to fathom:


1) Brewing with a paper filter is just really difficult. It's hard to get the papers off the other papers(although def gets easier with practice) and REALLY difficult to pre-wet the filters. Even when you can get the papers wet without totally collapsing the walls, the flutes are not even close to clean looking.

This is a problem for all flat bed brewers, but the problem is magnified 10 fold with this brewer. At least part of the issue is caused by the # of flutes put on the filter. The paper and dripper, at least on some level, was designed to be proprietary for no reason really then to sell more filter paper. The dripper itself flares out at the top, again, for no discernible reason then to sell more proprietary papers.

This speaks to Damianwars issue big time, and great call out on it. We don't need more filter shapes. Make a new filter design that you think works well, sure, why not, but why fix what isn't broken(for the most part) unless you have a truly superior solution?

Here, we have an inferior solution that can't be fixed because Espro has decided that selling more sh**ty filters is more important then providing a quality solution for the consumer.

2) Having decided that, even though I NEVER brew with anything but paper filters, I'll give this a shot, I brewed without filters today. This is where an almost mind bogglingly awful flaw was shown.

This is a brewer designed for only coarse brewing(at least without a paper filter, which as mentioned above, is extremely poorly designed). The holes create a vacuum because coffee particles get stuck in it, causing extreme channeling. If you agitate(for this, stirring is needed) to let the water flow through all the holes, the water just IMMEDIATELY flows through.

In short, there is simply no way this brewer went through proper testing, and is a massive fail on what should be a really cool concept.

runningonespresso47

#32: Post by runningonespresso47 »

I'm sorry that is your experience with it. Aside from a few quirks in the beginning, I've had a very positive experience with the brewer. I'm able to get the filters out pretty easily now, and pre-wetting has not become much of an issue. Like I said earlier, I've noticed the flutes collapse in less often when you pour water into the base and letting the filter sink into the brewer before ever pre-wetting the sides. I think this anchors the filter so that when water makes contact with the sides they are less likely to move. If I start to pre-wet the sides before that filter sinks in I've noticed it collapses. Yes, some of the flutes still fold in at the top of the vessel, but I don't think this really hinders the brew. It's just less of an aesthetic imo. So the cons of working with this filter have been negated for me.

I haven't tried brewing without a filter because I've never been a fan of a metal filter, so I can't comment on that.

As for comments selling completely different paper filters, I understand the concern. I have a disdain for Blue Bottle's bamboo filters since they are essentially more expensive Kalita filters that you don't have to pre-wet to avoid a papery taste. Even then, I would still pre-wet those filters to pre-heat the brewer itself, completely diminishing the main "feature" of this filter.

In this case, however, I think the different filter design (despite its quirks) has been advantageous. I get the desire to minimize the number of types of filters that you need to purchase. It's just simpler. But every pour over brewer that takes Kalita filters I've used (Wave, Blue Bottle Dripper, Origami, and now April Brewer), I've been able to choke at a fine enough grind. Sure, some of this may be user error, but it's still frustrating to start a brew only to realize you went too fine will have an astringent cup or have to stop the brew early and bypass to desired strength. With the Espro, I have yet to grind fine enough to choke a brew. The process of dialing in a grind or trying different recipes for different coffees has been simpler knowing that my chances of astringency are slim. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the brewer itself and how much is the filter that accompanies it. But to me, the ability to increase average extraction without the risk of channeling has been worth having another filter around and working around its fluted design. Better yet, the Espro filters actually cost LESS than Kalita 185 filters.

At this point, I think the only other workaround that I've seen for going finer with Kalita filters is the Origami Cone-Wave Filter. I'll get to this I'm some point I'm sure.

If you're already happy with what you're getting out of a Kalita filter and value simplicity of having less filters around, then yeah, I wouldn't recommend this brewer. I enjoy brews with those other brewers too, but I also enjoy the tinkering and pushing the boundaries of extraction on SO's. As a result, this has been really fun to play with.

culturesub

#33: Post by culturesub » replying to runningonespresso47 »


If flutes are collapsing, you aren't just losing something aesthetically, you're also causing coffee to get stuck in the walls, leading to an uneven extraction.

I rarely use a flat bottom brewer, as I greatly prefer cone shaped brewers, but would be happy to have another brewer in the collection if it worked well. I don't mind proprietary papers if they work well- even if you look at the Espro IG, everything that they're tagged in has horrible folding on the walls of the filter. What this brewer does though, theoretically, is irrelevant to the paper. They could have made this exact brewer with standard papers and the concept of it's speed wouldn't have changed an iota, as its in the design of the bottom of the brewer itself. I have 4 different flat bottom brewers(well 5 with Espro), 6 different cone brewers, with probably over 10 different types of paper filters. This is, by far, the worst designed of the entire lot.

It's poor designed is evidenced by the fact that they're really pushing it as something you don't need paper filters for, and you literally can not grind fine on this with the metal filter.

My grinder set up is as unimodal as it can get- I have a Flat Max with SSP EK pre 2015 cast coffee burrs. I can basically never choke a brew, and easily get 23%+ on an average pour over. This dripper is the only one I own that I will literally just throw away after a bit more experimenting.

runningonespresso47

#34: Post by runningonespresso47 »

culturesub wrote: If flutes are collapsing, you aren't just losing something aesthetically, you're also causing coffee to get stuck in the walls, leading to an uneven extraction.

I rarely use a flat bottom brewer, as I greatly prefer cone shaped brewers, but would be happy to have another brewer in the collection if it worked well. I don't mind proprietary papers if they work well- even if you look at the Espro IG, everything that they're tagged in has horrible folding on the walls of the filter. What this brewer does though, theoretically, is irrelevant to the paper. They could have made this exact brewer with standard papers and the concept of it's speed wouldn't have changed an iota, as its in the design of the bottom of the brewer itself. I have 4 different flat bottom brewers(well 5 with Espro), 6 different cone brewers, with probably over 10 different types of paper filters. This is, by far, the worst designed of the entire lot.

It's poor designed is evidenced by the fact that they're really pushing it as something you don't need paper filters for, and you literally can not grind fine on this with the metal filter.

My grinder set up is as unimodal as it can get- I have a Flat Max with SSP EK pre 2015 cast coffee burrs. I can basically never choke a brew, and easily get 23%+ on an average pour over. This dripper is the only one I own that I will literally just throw away after a bit more experimenting.
You're right about the fluting. My mistake. With the brews I've done with it I still leave with most of the flutes having decent integrity. May two or three stick together by the end.



When I opened the collapsed flutes to see what grounds were left, it was marginal. Though, because I grind finer with this than with other brewers and the flutes have less surface area, I think less grounds are actually sticking to the sides than with other Kalita filter brewers. Typically, the coarser I go the worse grounds stick to the sides.

I'm with you on cone brewers over flat ones. This won't ever replace my plastic V60. But I think we just disagree about how the intensity of the pros and cons of this brewer/filter (by a large margin I suppose).

culturesub

#35: Post by culturesub »

Fair enough- btw, you should check out the Cafec flower dripper, thats my favorite cone dripper, and DEF get a melodrip if you like grinding finer, it makes a huuuuge difference.

zefkir

#36: Post by zefkir »

culturesub wrote:snip
runningonespresso47 wrote:snip
With regards to paper issues, I wonder if it's possible to brew with just a piece of paper on the bottom. it would certainly be something interesting to try.

Also, what's the diameter? Could someone fit an aeropress filter directly without further cutting?