Boring coffee

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
Wingover

#1: Post by Wingover »

Hello everyone, I like to see if you can point me in the right direction on how I should go about fixing a brew problem that is consistent.

I use a Hario V60-02 with a Comandante grinder and I make my own water even thought Vancouver water is not so bad. I have a refractometer and TDS meter. I try to buy beans from good roasters like Gardelli, Coffee Collective and other Nordic or European roasters.

I use small doses like 10g so not to waste too much coffee as I learn. I manage to brew most of the time fairly consisted drink with TDS in the range of 1.25-1.4 with 19-24% extraction but except for one cup of the Gardelli that came up with nice notes and so sweet like someone added sugar to it, every other cup comes out fairly balanced in terms of sour vs bitter but just boring one flavor coffee. No matter what I do in term of temp or grind size.

Any idea on how to go about bringing the different notes into the cup? I like light fruity coffee but just can't get my home brew to taste like the store one.

jevenator

#2: Post by jevenator »

If you're tasting flavor notes at the cafe that you're not getting st home you can ask for their water temp that they use. I've had really good success at using lower temperature brew water starting at like 88C and keeping it off the station which drops it to 83/84 by the time I'm done. I pulse pour my coffee with a melodrip as well but even without it you should get good results. A lot say to use high temps for light roast but I've found lower temps emphasize the acidity more.

Also, a little bit more advance and out of my expertise might be the type of water you are making as well.

"Bad" water can make the brew taste flat and boring.

On a V60 I used to do this with a 20g recipe.

1) bloom with 3x grounds weight (60g). Stir to break up clumps
2) pour gently to 140 and give it a Rao swirl
3) let it drain to about a half inch above bed and then add water gently to top/desired ratio 1:15 in my case + grounds weight so it'd be 320g. One more Rao swirl and let it drain.

This has been the easiest recipe for me before I got my Melodrip.

I wouldn't use 10g in an 02 dripper. Seems to be very little. 16-18 is the lowest I'd go. The cafés near me always do 20+g brews at a 1:14 ratio or so.

I'm also assuming you're using a gooseneck kettle as well.
LMWDP #643

ojt

#3: Post by ojt »

I'm new to pour-over but so far I have noted this:

Varying the amount of pours influences the outcome greatly. For example when I use the Hoffmann method (bloom + one single pour) I get very smooth and sweet coffee. Inoffensive but also sometimes too boring as you say. Breaking the pours into smaller amounts and waiting the previous pour to drain almost completely increases acidity and fruity flavors. I usually start with one or two pours after bloom and then adjust based on taste, going up to the Kasuya 4-6 method with 4 pours after bloom. I also swirl when I see it necessary, at least the bloom and also the two first pours, sometimes all of them slightly.

Also - and I may be way off track here - I would increase the dose to 15g and grind more coarse. I think of this along the same lines as with espresso: grind finer for more sweetness and coarse for acidity and fruit. My go-to recipe is a basic 15g to 250g, using Origami cone and V60-02 or Kalita 185 papers.

Letting the coffee cool off works for me as it enhances both the sweetness and fruity flavors.

I have brewed Gardelli (even if not recently), The Barn, Bugan Coffee Lab (I really suggest you try these), La Sosta Specialty Coffees, Morgon, and some others. All of them excellent, The Barn being the least favorite.
Osku

Yan

#4: Post by Yan »

My recipe is simple just divide by 4 or 5 pouring, either 12-13/200 or 15/250, using a medium coarse grindsize either in V.60 / Kalita Wave, I use Thirdwave Water and sometimes dillute to lower ppm based on the brewing results.

chapelizod
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#5: Post by chapelizod »

Your dose is way too small for a V 60-02. I get your reasoning for using a small amount of coffee, but it's harder to brew V60's with smaller doses. I used to dose ~22g and moving up to 30g made working on pouring and consistency much easier. Whether or not you want to use Hoffman's V60 method, it's worth watching his V60 video, as he explains some things about dose size and agitation that are important to recognize.

Like other people have said, I think your areas of focus should be dose size, water quality and maybe temperature if the other two don't seem to help.

Wingover

#6: Post by Wingover »

Thanks for all the replies. As I mentioned, my water is good and have the right mineral content and level. I tried to change the temp from 88 to 96c and all that has changed was the TDS but not the flavor.

I noticed that April coffee has a video on pour over and they use the v60-02 with 13g coffee.

I guess that I can try a 20g dose to see if it makes a different.

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yakster
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#7: Post by yakster »

Wingover wrote:I tried to change the temp from 88 to 96c and all that has changed was the TDS but not the flavor.
That's really odd, you should notice a dramatic change in flavor with fresh coffee brewed at such different temperatures. Stale coffee all pretty much tastes the same, though. Are you experiencing a loss of flavor with foods too? Our sensitivity to smells and flavors varies based on a lot of factors and It could be playing a part in your issue.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

Wingover

#8: Post by Wingover »

Hi Chris,

I should have explained it better. It does change in flavor a bit but there is no complexity to the coffee. My wife agrees as well. I don't have an issue with tasting food so I really think that it is something that I do (or lack of) with the coffee.

This happens with different roasters so it's not stale coffee. Just to be clear again, I am speaking of complexity of the coffee flavor that I am looking for and right now its not there for me.

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yakster
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#9: Post by yakster »

The V60 can be a tough brewer to use, at least for me it has been. Maybe try checking out some brew videos or try a press pot to see if you like that better.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

Yan

#10: Post by Yan »

Wingover wrote:Hi Chris,

I should have explained it better. It does change in flavor a bit but there is no complexity to the coffee. My wife agrees as well. I don't have an issue with tasting food so I really think that it is something that I do (or lack of) with the coffee.

This happens with different roasters so it's not stale coffee. Just to be clear again, I am speaking of complexity of the coffee flavor that I am looking for and right now its not there for me.
I also have some experience like this about 1-2 month ago, after several testing the water recipe the concentrate was to high, I try to dillute with distilled water the tww 150-160ppm to 100-125ppm and it works, some Indonesia roasters a good roastery end up a bit muted or not at their optimal in the cup with a full strength TWW water not other water, sometimes a hit and miss with regular mineral water.

It's just my experience maybe not the same experience as you have...