Bloom Time vs. Brew Time

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
adam_from_cle

#1: Post by adam_from_cle »

Hello Everyone,

Could someone help a relative newbie get something straight: Many brew guides will say to use a bloom time of for example 30 seconds. The guide will then go on to describe pour times/techniques. These guides usually conclude with a statement such as "your total brew time should be two minutes (for example.) Does this "total brew time" or "target brewing duration" include the bloom time? This has confused me for a while and i would like to get clear on that. Thanks for clearing this up! -Adam

brianl

#2: Post by brianl »

Typically yes, unless the brew recipe says otherwise.

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day

#3: Post by day »

From what I have heard most seen be at 2min 50 sec including bloom of 30 seconds.

Intelligenista has an app that puts it at 315 with 60 seconds bloom so it would appear you can safely see it as 2min 20seconds brew and add bloom.
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yakster
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#4: Post by yakster »

You could try it both ways and see what tastes better.

Brew recipes are often just a starting point and tweaking them to fit your needs (depending on coffee, water qualities, taste) is encouraged.
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boar_d_laze

#5: Post by boar_d_laze »

Bloom time can vary with post-roast rest. If the coffee's had at least a couple of days post roast, 30 seconds is probably enough.

Even though you bloom with a spiral pour -- which takes some time -- you begin the bloom time clock at the first moment water hits coffee. Instead of calling "end of bloom" with the clock, you can call it when the dome on top of the cone created by the bloom stops growing. That usually occurs within forty five seconds.

Pour time varies with grind, dose, filter media, and sometimes degree of roast (i.e., light to dark).

You're probably talking about your Hario, but by way of contrast my 1L Chemex + Kone requires a fairly coarse grind and a total time greater than 4min (that's a damn slow pour) to do its best. I like to keep my center-pour slow enough for the water to form a mushroom dome where it hits the coffee.

Rich
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zammie

#6: Post by zammie »

boar_d_laze wrote:Instead of calling "end of bloom" with the clock, you can call it when the dome on top of the cone created by the bloom stops growing. That usually occurs within forty five seconds.

Pour time varies with grind, dose, filter media, and sometimes degree of roast (i.e., light to dark).
+1 to both comments. I time my brews but don't really worry about it. Recipes just give starting points and help you get in the ball park. I find most times my bloom does stop between 30-45s.

Be careful not to cause channeling when blooming- you can tell if there are big bubbles rising from a specific spot.

Have fun! :)
dizzy

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adam_from_cle (original poster)

#7: Post by adam_from_cle (original poster) »

Hey everybody thanks for the replies thus far. One of the issues i have been having with the V60-01 size is that I cant seem to get my brew times under three minutes; this is the time after the bloom. I am using 20 grams of coffee with 312 grams water and will bloom with 30 grams of water. So it is taking around three minutes to pour around 290 grams of water to completion. This is even at medium grind. Now when I use the 02 size V60 the pours go much faster. Any tips on how to speed up the pour time as I think I am taking to long and over extracting but I am pretty much a newbie and wouldn't really know! I think maybe the fine particles are flowing to the bottom of the cone and stopping up the flow? Not really sure.

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#8: Post by day »

Well i also use an 01 and my personal experience has been that at the 21 gram mark i completely lose control. The same grind and pour might be 2.5 minutes or 5 minutes. I have improved my technique so i could try again, but i am pretty sure you are overdosing for the 01. Try at 12-18 grams for a while and see of that gives you better control, then try moving up and see if you still have a problem.

While learning i recommend 12 gram on the 01, seems optimum dose for 01, a nice fine grind not too far above espresso (my pharos is set to 9.1ish on my scale for espresso, 12 for 12 grams on v60 and 18 for 18 grams on v60) there is difference in grind size required at even one gram change so make sure you weigh everything at .1 gram.

Also, 30 gram more or less water will change the flavor drastically as well. Try the quantities stated in intelligenistas brew app as a start.

I really think reducing your grams will make the difference though.

Also, what is your pouring technique?

I have had success by these two methods:

Constant slow pour in the middle in very very tiny tight circles, then slowly expand outward close to rim, slowly back in, constant center for a bit then circles again. Keep the water pretty low but gradually rising a to and then Last 40grams or so larger circles to include the outer layer of coffee and bring it in tight for a rao spin. (I think its called that?)

The other is Matt Pergers technique on youtube. Three surges if rotating water column. If you choose not to do constant drip you have to keep a very tall colum of water over the beans relative to the dry bean mass height. At 20+ grams it is not possible to attain the necessary height and speed for the target time (in my experience), but at 12-18 it is.
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MWJB

#9: Post by MWJB »

adam_from_cle wrote:Hey everybody thanks for the replies thus far. One of the issues i have been having with the V60-01 size is that I cant seem to get my brew times under three minutes; this is the time after the bloom. I am using 20 grams of coffee with 312 grams water and will bloom with 30 grams of water. So it is taking around three minutes to pour around 290 grams of water to completion. This is even at medium grind. Now when I use the 02 size V60 the pours go much faster. Any tips on how to speed up the pour time as I think I am taking to long and over extracting but I am pretty much a newbie and wouldn't really know! I think maybe the fine particles are flowing to the bottom of the cone and stopping up the flow? Not really sure.
I'm not convinced that you are taking too long. 3 mins plus 30s bloom (assuming no significant output from the cone in that bloom time) doesn't sound unreasonable.

Grinding coarser would speed up your flow, but as you still seem to be adding water up to 3:00, it may be that you aren't adding the water consistently? Even with 20g of grinds in the brewer, you should still have room for 50g, or more, of brew water?

Bloom, then break down the pours in to 40s intervals, say 70g every 40s, (just because that breaks down fairly well with your remaining 280g of brew water...speed up the flow by adding the water in fewer & larger portions/slow it by using smaller & more frequent portions) adding each pour in 10-14s, your last water should then be in by 2:40? About a minute from then to drain out?

day

#10: Post by day »

I needed to update this because i gave inaccurate information .i havent bothered to test this out yet fully...however i was able to put in 21 grams and easily wet my target time of 30 second bloom 250 total. I do feel its getting pretty coarse though and that the quality was suffering. only did it one time though. Nonetheless with proper technique and coarse enough grind 21grams should not be a problem to meet specified time goals,
Just not sure how well it extracts though as you get coarser than really intended?
Yes, i you per this on an iPhone