Hi all, this is my first post ever in this forum. I hope this post is following the rules.

The only time I've ever dialed in a coffee, 1.5 years into my coffee journey, was a low-caf blend from Friedhats in my Aeropress. With a new coffee from Friedhats (Quiquira Peru), I strived to dial it in with the V60 and my Comandante and a single cup recipe (15:200). I'm at the end of my bottle and I haven't been successful dialing it in. With every brew, no matter what I do (low water temperature, 1:13 ratio, using SPA water, 37 clicks on comandante, 2 g/s pour), I always seem to get astringency and no clarity of flavor. I know what potential flavors can come out of a V60, since I've been to Amsterdam Coffee Festival. Can someone please help me figure out what the problem is?

Gear: KitchenTour scale, Hario Buono 1,0 L kettle, Comandante C40 MK4 (bought 1 month ago), Spa water (20.7/13.9 GH/KH), Hario untabbed filters 02 size, clear plastic V60, and a Hario server with the plastics if that's of any importance.

Thanks in advance.

Try 17:1 or more. 13:1 is likely going to be a strong harsh coffee. I even do 20:1 occasionally. If you like it, you will save money too using less coffee.

Do you do a bloom? If so, how long? And what's the total draw down time?

Other things to try are a coarser grind, and ~90-95C water temp.

Hi Moon_pork98,

It feels to me that your brewing parameters are on the underextracting end (which is okay if that's what you enjoy). Parameters for 15g dose I would be less surprised to see would be somewhere around:
- ratio 1:15 so 15g coffee-to-250g water (or even higher 1:16, 1:17),
- grind setting around 25 clicks (+- 5 clicks depending on your pouring method which you didn't describe)
- water temp around 95*C (+-4*C)

This should get you into the ball park hopefully (again, difficult to say as I don't know your pouring method).

After trying the above the astringency could go away, but if it persists a couple of random guesses would be:
- maybe you're adding water too aggressively? (too high a drop from the kettle spout, too fast the flow rate, too much swirling V60, too many pours)
- maybe try a different water (Volvic is a classic reference point - maybe you won't like the taste as much but it might impact astringency)
- maybe deep clean your Comandante (like on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI8H8sVAsjE )

Either way please let us know how you're doing and fingers crossed it goes well

I second the opinion that the coffee is likely under-extracted. For a V60 a good starting ratio is 15:1 or 16:1. And go to a finer grind as mentioned earlier. The water is extremely soft with low KH. Maybe GH/KH of closer to 80/40 could be a better starting point. Unfortunately there are many variables so this would just be a starting point. Dialing in can be a frustrating process but the more variables that you can eventually keep constant, the easier it will become.

Thanks for the reply. I have tried ratios like 1:17 before, but sadly with not so much success.

CoffeeIsWeird wrote:Hi Moon_pork98,

It feels to me that your brewing parameters are on the underextracting end (which is okay if that's what you enjoy). Parameters for 15g dose I would be less surprised to see would be somewhere around:
- ratio 1:15 so 15g coffee-to-250g water (or even higher 1:16, 1:17),
- grind setting around 25 clicks (+- 5 clicks depending on your pouring method which you didn't describe)
- water temp around 95*C (+-4*C)

This should get you into the ball park hopefully (again, difficult to say as I don't know your pouring method).

After trying the above the astringency could go away, but if it persists a couple of random guesses would be:
- maybe you're adding water too aggressively? (too high a drop from the kettle spout, too fast the flow rate, too much swirling V60, too many pours)
- maybe try a different water (Volvic is a classic reference point - maybe you won't like the taste as much but it might impact astringency)
- maybe deep clean your Comandante (like on video )

Either way please let us know how you're doing and fingers crossed it goes well

Thanks for the reply. I definitely don't enjoy my brews as they are lol. By the way, for clearance I pour as gently as possible in circle pours trying to get as close as possible, and I try to avoid the water turning into droplets before it hits the bed.

Does it mean that astringency is also a sign of underextraction? Because I've always heard astringency meant grinding coarser, extracting less, etc and it just didn't go away + the body of the beverage suffered severely. If that's so, I think that clears up a whole lot about dialing in. But I'm still not sure whether I've extracted too much or too little. Is there then a difference in astringency when overextracting and underextracting? Or am I just misinterpreting the term astringency?

This is actually more difficult to answer than you would expect. But under-extracted can have what some would describe as sour or astringent. However, over-extracted can also be described as bitter and astringent. So some are suggesting you appear to be under-extracted partly by the term astringent but more based on your brewing parameters. At some point when you get to a balanced brew, it is worth purposefully going to both the under and over-extracted side to start to get a feel for the flavor characteristics. Good luck.

Does it mean that astringency is also a sign of underextraction? Because I've always heard astringency meant grinding coarser, extracting less, etc and it just didn't go away + the body of the beverage suffered severely. If that's so, I think that clears up a whole lot about dialing in. But I'm still not sure whether I've extracted too much or too little. Is there then a difference in astringency when overextracting and underextracting? Or am I just misinterpreting the term astringency?

Good questions!

As BobR correctly pointed out, I suggested an experiment with different brew parameters (brew ratio, grind size) because of your current brewing parameters. Your current parameters seem to be on the underextraction side (just guessing and comparing to my setup) which can taste funny Maybe once you get a higher extraction things will be easier to assess based on taste, or maybe not.

Have you tried a brew with my parameters above?

To answer your questions, I don't have enough experience to use astringency as a dial-in hint and adjust accordingly. Too tricky for me My current understanding, and please take it with a pinch of salt, is that astringency (and/or bitterness) can appear for a number of reasons. Some of them might be even not related to the brewing method, for example roast defect or inadequate water.

I understand that sometimes astringency (and/or bitterness) can be fixed by changing something in the brew recipe. That's a pro level for me

Hope that helps a bit.