CoffeeIsWeird wrote:Good questions!

As BobR correctly pointed out, I suggested an experiment with different brew parameters (brew ratio, grind size) because of your current brewing parameters. Your current parameters seem to be on the underextraction side (just guessing and comparing to my setup) which can taste funny Maybe once you get a higher extraction things will be easier to assess based on taste, or maybe not.

Have you tried a brew with my parameters above?

To answer your questions, I don't have enough experience to use astringency as a dial-in hint and adjust accordingly. Too tricky for me My current understanding, and please take it with a pinch of salt, is that astringency (and/or bitterness) can appear for a number of reasons. Some of them might be even not related to the brewing method, for example roast defect or inadequate water.

I understand that sometimes astringency (and/or bitterness) can be fixed by changing something in the brew recipe. That's a pro level for me

Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks for your detailed reply! I have for the past couple of days tried your recommendations. I had received new beans (kenyans) of which I know roughly the flavor profile of. I followed the baseline recipe of the roaster which has similar brewing parameters as the ones you've stated. I started out doing 18 clicks, of which I know would probably overextract, but hey, since I underextracted my previous beans, why not? I tasted it and it tasted of the color brown, just muddiness and probably bitterness and also the astringency as always. I still didn't trust my gut feelings of it being over or under. So today, and I'm dissapointed why I never have seen such suggestions for dialing in as a beginner, I thought: why not go one click finer to 17 and right after that make another brew one click coarser to 19 so I can taste what difference there was. I tasted them both and the coarser one tasted a bit more vibrant and sweeter. I am quite happy with the result of today's experiment, and tomorrow I'm going to try it again but then with 16 and 20 clicks, just to be sure. I don't know how this kind of an experiment never occured to me, but I am almost sure that I can get to a dialed in coffee with the v60 in the coming days. Thanks a lot for your advise! I'll keep you updated.

yakster wrote:And rinse the filter to avoid astringency from the paper.

Thanks for the advise Chris. Sorry to have not informed about my routine, but I always rinse the paper before brewing.

Brewzologist wrote:Do you do a bloom? If so, how long? And what's the total draw down time?

Other things to try are a coarser grind, and ~90-95C water temp.

Thanks for the reply and advise Brewzologist. I always bloom, it varies from 30-45 seconds, depending on the recipe I'm following. I am aware that with newer coffees, blooming longer is a good idea, but the bloom is never my biggest concern.

My total drawdown times with the recipe I stated was around 2:00. I have tried going coarser only, but with no success. And my brewing temperatures are always in the ballpark of 90-95C.

I recently purchased the V60 and was having terrible astringency and bitterness problems. For years prior (and still now) I had been happily using a Chemex flask.

After i purchased the V60, I started watching some of the popular "recipes" on YouTube from well known coffee pundits. Everyone is recommending 195-205 F water temperature in these videos. This surprised me because for many years of using my Chemex, i had always kept my water temperature around 180-175 F.

But "experts" on YouTube consistently tell me that 195-205 F is the correct temp for the V60. So I just went with what they told me.

The results were horrendous. No matter whether I used coarse or fine grind (and every grind size in between) the coffee was consistently over-extracted. I must have gone through 2 lbs of really good coffee fiddling with different grind sizes and different "recipes" with the V60.

Finally it dawned on me. I had been making delicious coffee in the Chemex for years, but with a much lower temperature than what all the "experts" said I should be using with the V60. So I went back to my normal temperate range of 180-175 F, the same range that has always consistently worked for me for so many years (with the Chemex). That fixed everything! V60 now making delicious coffee.

Bottom line for me: If I need better extraction, I will obtain it through smaller grind size and NOT through higher water temperature. My theory is that 195-205 F temperature is just WAY TOO HOT and ruins all the good coffee oils and other flavor components.

Brewing temperature is related to the characteristics of the source green coffee, how the coffee was roasted, the qualities of the water used for brewing, how the water is poured, the qualities of the grinder, and the qualities of the filter medium. I'm sure that there are more, but those are the major ones. There is no one ideal temperature.

Then there is the brewer itself. The V60 is one of the hardest brewing devices out there to learn and master. It offers incredible flexibility, which means every little thing a person does affects the results in the cup. If you want coffee that tastes like coffee brewed in a Chemex, then you can do that - but I would say that it would be easier to use a Chemex.

A lot of the folks saying high temps (some even say boiling) are likely using very light roasts. A medium or medium light doesn't need the temp and will taste harsh. I've shied away from using most of the online recipes that use fine grinds and high temp. I've settled on the Tetsu method with a medium-coarse grind. I only adjust grind for low/high altitude beans and I adjust temp based on roast level. Super simple and practically fool proof. No astringency. I usually use 88-90C for medium, 92-94C for medium light and 95-97C for light roast. I use a Fellow Ode with SSP MP for the most part.

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Yep every time I listen to NEW recipes my coffee is jacked up ! I find your correct with the lower temp although I've never gone that low. I also go MORE coarse as well.
I've got to stop listening to all these coffee pros. 🙉

Yep every time I listen to NEW recipes my coffee is jacked up ! I find your correct with the lower temp although I've never gone that low. I also go MORE coarse as well.
I've got to stop listening to all these coffee pros.

CoffeeIsWeird wrote:Good questions!

As BobR correctly pointed out, I suggested an experiment with different brew parameters (brew ratio, grind size) because of your current brewing parameters. Your current parameters seem to be on the underextraction side (just guessing and comparing to my setup) which can taste funny Maybe once you get a higher extraction things will be easier to assess based on taste, or maybe not.

Have you tried a brew with my parameters above?

To answer your questions, I don't have enough experience to use astringency as a dial-in hint and adjust accordingly. Too tricky for me My current understanding, and please take it with a pinch of salt, is that astringency (and/or bitterness) can appear for a number of reasons. Some of them might be even not related to the brewing method, for example roast defect or inadequate water.

I understand that sometimes astringency (and/or bitterness) can be fixed by changing something in the brew recipe. That's a pro level for me

Hope that helps a bit.

Haven't updated in quite a while. So I had one brew in which I was satisfied. With 21 clicks, it had a chocolate cake-like aroma and it was quite sweet. However still astringency. A few brews later, and I have yet to replicate that brew, without much success. I am now at 25 clicks at the end of the bag. And I wasn't able to dial it in yet again. But I've bought another bag of the same coffee and roaster. So fingers crossed that I can finally dial it in. I plan to do this: filming my pouring technique, so I can replicate it every time. And also again doing back to back brews with 24 and 25, 23 and 26, and so on so forth.