Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
rmongiovi wrote:I spoke to Frank about what Titus provides with respect to EK43 burrs. He said they have "SSP cast pre 2015" and "resharpened MK burrs". He wouldn't give me any description of what those are. I presume the SSP cast pre-2015 are just the normal 98mm cast that you can get from SSP. I'm not at all certain what resharpened MK burrs are. Do they have a stock of old pre-2015 burrs that they have resharpened? Does SSP take their own cast burrs or new MK burrs and resharpen them into (close to?) the pre-2015 geometry?
Fairly certain it is (1) SSP cast burrs (with ZrN coated by Frank) or (2) current MK burrs, with regrind geometry change to pre-2015 by SSP. Hopefully option (2) is the slightly more expensive version that takes a bit more machine time to very closely match true pre-2015 EK burrs.
I don't think SSP will take their cast burrs and change the geometry - wasn't that discussed previously in this thread as well?
I've seen comments that SSP regrinds burrs but I don't remember seeing a definitive statement about what it is they regrind. I sent email to Hansung asking the question but he has not replied. The Titus reground burrs are only about 150 euros more so if they're truly the same as pre-2015 MK burrs that's absolutely a viable alternative for the incredibly picky. That's depends, of course, on how close to the real pre-2015s they are and assuming that SSP's cast burrs aren't actually better due to their mods. I can't discount the possibility that the true pre-2015's reputation has been inflated by the fact they are no longer obtainable.
I heard repeatedly that SSP tends to resharpen MK burrs to their interpretation of the pre revision burrs rather than as close to the original geometry as possible. That is so strange to me.
I mean if a customer specifically asks to resharpen burrs similar to the pre revision MK geometry, who in his right mind resharpens them not as close as possible to the original?
The only sane explanation that I am able to come up with is the same logic I assume MK themselves have. Choosing to use a geometry to allow more easy dial in for espresso to avoid customer complaints.
I think it was stated earlier in this thread, but definitely elsewhere that no resharpening of the post revision MK burrs nor of the cast SSP burrs can produce the pre revision MK burrs. Maybe if we complain enough to MK about how their burrs suck for filter they will switch back
Or do a run of the old burrs
It is ironic that the myth of the pre revision EK43 burrs being "the best" for espresso cost us the burrs that are the best burrs for filter coffee
I'm not sure ironic is the best description; silly comes to mind. But with all the other espresso-centric burrs that SSP offers why would he modify the pre-2015 geometry to be better for espresso? I'd be very surprised if he's never seen an honest-to-god pre-2015 burr set. I imagine that he could duplicate it if he wanted to. I presume it's fear that MK would sue him, though if they really cared I would think they would offer that geometry as a choice along with normal/turkish. It's very frustrating when vendors are so out of touch with customer demand.
I am sure Han could copy any burr that is right, but what would be the fun in that. I assume he wants to bring something to the table, rather than copy something. And surely he does bring something. Seeing some interviews with him I believe he is personally more invested in espresso.
PS: no really I ment to write, mean, and be ironic
The reason for MK to not have 2 burr options is pretty wise from a sales perspective. At least no questions come up which burr set is better. Just ask the Option-O guys what an effort it probably still is to educate every other customer about the pros and cons of the 64mm burr sets. That seriously is a lot of work to handle so many support questions.
Except that in the age of google it's more difficult to keep the inadequacy of your offering a secret. With an entire burr industry focused on espresso it seems obvious to me that a market for brew exists. When you seem to have stumbled on a GOAT brew burr design how do you justify abandoning it?
I really think most of those EK43s in coffee shops are being used for batch or single brew and not espresso. Would be lovely to have the pure coffee burr option, probably as many would get that as the Turkish burrs if the word got out?
Wow. What a long thread I just walked trough.
Yes, I have had a 804 Lab Sweet in parallel with an EK (as mentioned by CoffeeOnTheBrain). First with HU for Espresso.
Then I sent Hansung my original 98mm (2019) to resharpen to pre2015 with silver night coating.
From this time 80mm Lab Sweet parallel to MK pre2015 by SSP.
In fact I believe the SSP cast pre2015 have the same geometry as resharpend MK to pre2015. At least from discussion from friends having used them. Grind setting, taste, behaviour and so on. Same same.
Both, Pre2015 and LabSweet are fantastic burrs with it's andvantages and disadvantages.
Then I was lucky to get original MK pre2015.
Geometry is slightly different than pre2015 by SSP.
And filter brews...? Yes, a real dream. Very sweet. Very balanced. Just WOW.
I think what makes them special is, that they are not specialized in something. They just make coffee in a way you think: I want to drink coffee all day long - but I don't know why.
The 804 LabSweet is sold. But for me still one of the best grinder out of the box.
More tealike cups than EK. I preferred them for Geshas.
The resharpend MK 2019 to pre2015 by SSP are also sold. Very good burrs. For filter and espresso.
More fruity cups than LabSweet. I preferred them for Ethiopians.
I just wanted to rule out the possibility that Titus is selling a pre 2015 clone set different from SSP cast, and he replied that he is selling the SSP cast burr for filter and that they are not exactly the same as pre 2015.
I see a difference in the images of original pre 2015 burrs, and SSP cast and their reground to «pre 2015» as demanded by customer. And that is the flat triangles on the outer finishing section. With the images for originals the triangles are smaller, and with SSP they are longer and extend more toward the center of the burr. The resulting channel in between these are of course different.
Current EK burrs are more of a long almost straight channel following the cast pattern from the inside to the outer edge of the burr. SSP cast and reground has a little more of a funnel making the exit a little more narrow, and the old coffee burrs have a more drastic wide to narrow shape from inside to edge.
OG with smaller triangles:
SSP reground and current EK burrs: