98mm Burrs for Brew - Page 7

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
franklin270h

#61: Post by franklin270h »

coffeemmichael wrote:This.

FWIW any level of improvement in clarity over current OEM MK 98MM is worth the money, that said I'm glad this difference is actively being noticed & called out rather than taken just at the manufacturer's word

And honestly, the current MK burrs aren't bad-- I'd still pick them (for brew) over any of the 98mm spro burrs, both SSP & Kafatek.
The current ones are definitely good and I would too. I think it's just more that the older ones were exceptional.

I just kinda feel like leaning on SSP's offerings at the moment you're kinda hamstrung if you're a filter coffee nut. Tbh I felt like the Ditting 804 burrs blew his 80mm out of the water too for filter.

For 98 though I think he should just do spro (high u), multi (low u) and clone the old cast and call it a day. Those are the winners out of his lineup for what they're intended to do.

rmongiovi

#62: Post by rmongiovi »

Ejquin wrote:I have the Titus nautilus and if you opt for the ssp pre-2015 cast, it's the version ssp modified. It's not exactly the same as the pre-2015.
Which one is that article referring to? Or maybe the better question is what do you get when you buy a nautilus for brewed coffee? That article seems to imply that their "identical to the pre-2015" burrs are from SSP but if SSP is doing the regrinding that doesn't tell me anything. Given the cost of that grinder I'd expect they'd include the burrs they consider best.

Are the burrs reground to be the pre-2015 geometry really as good as the actual pre-2015 burrs, or are the SSP cast burrs actually the best that are actually obtainable today? Or is that the current MK 98mm for brew?

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Ejquin
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#63: Post by Ejquin »

What you're uncovering is what it seems like a lot of people are uncovering right now if you read the various threads on grinders and burrs - that SSP does a really poor job of explaining their different offerings, what they are best for, and how they are differentiated. And it's even more confusing when manufacturers take SSP burrs and call them something different.

Regarding the Nautilus, Frank from Titus is offering the grinder with two options - what he think is the best 98mm option for espresso (SSP high uniformity) or what he thinks is best for filter (the SSP version of the pre-2015 EK). Their communication on the filter burrs has been that the burrs are "identical" or "replicas" of the pre-2015 burrs, which is probably why that article says that, but I reached out to SSP to verify and they told me that they are their version, i.e. modified, of the pre-2015.

I don't think Frank is trying to mislead anyone intentionally, I just think he is putting in what he believes is the best readily available 98mm filter burr, which he believes is the SSP pre-2015 EK version burr. He may not think the modification matters all that much, or doesn't wants to go through the process of having to describe the changes every time he lists the burr. It's easier just to say it's a version of the pre-2015 burr.

I have only had the grinder 1.5 weeks and haven't done any seasoning other than using it, so I'm not in a place where I can make conclusions yet, but it's apparent the grinder + burr is very good for filter. Much better than my old Monolith Flat with red speed SSP burrs. I don't have experience with actual pre-2015 EK burrs, so I can't comment on that. I'll have a more thorough assessment once I gain more experience with it, but I have no regrets with it so far.

rmongiovi

#64: Post by rmongiovi »

Thanks, Eric. I think you're going above and beyond with this. I agree with the assessment of SSP. I think the language barrier makes it very difficult to determine how Hansung is actually describing his burrs.

I'm not suggesting that Titus, or anyone, is intending to mislead anyone. It's just that since no one seems to precisely describe any of these burrs it's impossible to draw conclusions. For instance, I do know that Titus sells both SSP "pre-2015" and reground "pre-2015" but that's the limit of my knowledge. I've never seen a definitive description of the two. I don't know if they have a hidden web site somewhere but the one google finds for me is essentially non-existent. It's too bad they can't move into the 21st century....

If I may ask, are your burrs coated? I think there's a whole question on top of which burrs are best with respect to how coatings affect their performance.

ira
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#65: Post by ira »

I think we still put to much faith in the ability of burr designers to design something that will taste good or create a particular flavor or grind profile. I base this somewhat on stories about the development of the Peak where it was said that after trying to design the burrs for the Peak and not being happy the designers went to a cabinet at Ditting where they store samples of every burr design they've made and tested every one that fit the Peak and discovered that this old obsolete cast burr was the best burr they had tried. So it went back into production. I wonder if Kafatek will be the new leader in burr design as he seems to be willing to make a new burr every few days to test, each one slightly different to try and see what actually matters. I recall an earlier message where coffeemmichael said he's tasted coffee from an early version of the Kafatek 98mm brew burrs and it was the best he'd seen. Looking at the pictures of Shuriken burrs, you can tell that the designs are not rigidly based on previous burr designs. I'm waiting for the designs to settle a bit before I put them in my Flat.

Ira

Ejquin
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#66: Post by Ejquin »

rmongiovi wrote:If I may ask, are your burrs coated? I think there's a whole question on top of which burrs are best with respect to how coatings affect their performance.
Yes, they have a ZrN (zirconium nitride) multilayer coating

zero610

#67: Post by zero610 » replying to Ejquin »

Have you taken any pictures of the burrs?

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Ejquin
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#68: Post by Ejquin »

Not sure this is the best, but here is a picture of when I had the Nautilus open to clean it (which is extremely easy by the way)

franklin270h

#69: Post by franklin270h »

Ejquin wrote: I don't think Frank is trying to mislead anyone intentionally, I just think he is putting in what he believes is the best readily available 98mm filter burr, which he believes is the SSP pre-2015 EK version burr. He may not think the modification matters all that much, or doesn't wants to go through the process of having to describe the changes every time he lists the burr. It's easier just to say it's a version of the pre-2015 burr.
The problem is that it's expensive to do a MK regrind. He started off offering MK regrinds, but I'd wager from working on so many custom EKs over the years he probably had a pile of them laying around. Now he has to get from Mk -> send to regrind -> get it shipped back -> coat them himself.

I haven't asked in a bit but a friend said that he does still offer those, but it's his most expensive burrset for very obv reasons.

Realistically though if one wants an MK regrind, it's not expensive to do. Getting a used set on the market and sending it out to do the geometry change still comes out as cheap/cheaper than getting a machined burr.

rmongiovi

#70: Post by rmongiovi »

Ejquin wrote:Yes, they have a ZrN (zirconium nitride) multilayer coating
The espressotool.com web site offers red speed, silver knight, and titanium nitride coatings. Hansung has recommended silver knight (which is harder than red speed) for brew in the Q/A section of that web site. It's interesting that Titus chooses zirconium nitride. I wonder where that fits in.

I've been wondering about that silver knight recommendation. I don't know why he'd choose that for brew, especially for home use. I'd expect that its hardness would make seasoning take longer and I'm not sure that having burrs which will last twice my lifetime is a real advantage over burrs that will just last for my lifetime.