98mm Burrs for Brew - Page 6

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
zero610

#51: Post by zero610 »

franklin270h wrote:They will do geometry change to pre-2015. Just make sure to specify that you want a geometry conversion to the exact angle/depth of pre-2015. It costs a little more than his usual resharpening service because it takes more time to cut (I recently had another set done, it was $180 USD, standard resharpen is $150)
This only applies if converting from current burr geometry to pre-2015 geometry, right? There shouldn't be anything to specify when resharpening an original set of pre-2015 burrs, right?

Ejquin
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#52: Post by Ejquin »

So could he convert the SSP "custom" version of the cast burr to the actual 2015 burr geometry? Just curious if that's even possible.

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franklin270h

#53: Post by franklin270h »

zero610 wrote:This only applies if converting from current burr geometry to pre-2015 geometry, right? There shouldn't be anything to specify when resharpening an original set of pre-2015 burrs, right?
He can convert anything to anything, coffee to turkish, Turkish to coffee, etc.


But to resharpen an existing burr it shouldnt cost extra no, but it would be worth specifying to keep it the same just in case.

franklin270h

#54: Post by franklin270h »

Ejquin wrote:So could he convert the SSP "custom" version of the cast burr to the actual 2015 burr geometry? Just curious if that's even possible.
I don't believe so. The middle section of the burr is entirely different and that's set by the mold, not by machining

rmongiovi

#55: Post by rmongiovi » replying to franklin270h »

From the pictures I've seen comparing the SSP version with the true pre-2015 - 2020 Coffee Grinder Showdown - converting to the pre-2015 would have to involve adding material, not sharpening unless you removed considerable material to lower then entire burr surface. If you look at the actual pre-2015 burrs the two thicker "breaking teeth" at the inner edge of the burr are about two and a half sections wide. On the SSP version they're only one section wide and then slope down to the thickness of the rest of the burr. I don't see how sharpening could fix that. If you look at the current ek43 burrs for brewed coffee they start sloping down immediately from the high edge. So the SSP version is just slightly in between the current and pre-2015 standard burrs.

I've also seen some speculation that cast burrs are better for brew than machined since they come out of the mold less sharp from the beginning. If that's true then relying on sharpening may be the wrong direction in any case.

franklin270h

#56: Post by franklin270h » replying to rmongiovi »

SSP has them on display on his IG here: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs9et45BSMt ... _copy_link

His custom cast burrs, the middle section is much thicker, which amounts to a flatter angle from the center of the burr toward the edges (where the MK burrs have more of a slope).

With the newer MK coffee burrs, the prebreakers etc actually work themselves out pretty well once he grinds the angle to pre-2015 spec, the new coffee burrs the prebreaking teeth are actually much taller than the old ones. But really the prebreakers aren't all that important comparative to the edges of the burrs, that's the most important part of a burr design and the main difference between the old design and newer (and custom ) ones.

The cast burr "difference" could partly be that. I think also a lot of that is just that it essentially throws more work on the edges rather than doing as much prebreaking and cutting in the second section.

rmongiovi

#57: Post by rmongiovi »

Thanks for the reply, but I'm dense and I can never tell how to interpret all these statements. The link you provided is dated 2019. The photo I linked to is a photo of the SSP 98mm cast burrs that I purchased last November so I presume Hansung has arrived at whatever modifications he alludes to in that instagram link.

Are you saying he can grind the MK post-2015 geometry into pre-2015 or that he can grind the SSP cast burrs into pre-2015 geometry?

Obviously it would be better to compare the real SSP cast burrs with the real MK pre-2015 burrs in person, but looking at my photo any difference in the angle looks minimal to me. The prebreaker teeth on the pre-2015 may be higher but they're definitely broader. And the teeth at the edge of the pre-2015 are broader with less of a gap between them than on the SSP version. Am I missing something? It looks to me like a considerable amount of metal would have to be removed from the SSP cast burrs to convert them.

But I'm also still confused as to whether the SSP cast burrs are really better or worse than the true pre-2015's. Doesn't Titus Grinding use the SSP cast burrs in their Nautilus? The article https://dailycoffeenews.com/2020/11/18/ ... -nautilus/ describes them as "identical to the burrs made for Mahlkönig EK43 machines prior to 2015." I've also variously read that Hansung's modification to the pre-2015 geometry either produces fewer fines or is more appropriate for espresso (which would make it more like the post-2015 than the pre-2015 yet he still describes them as pre-2015). Those two descriptions of the mod seem at odds to me.

When asking the same question at different times results in different answers I just don't know what to believe.

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franklin270h

#58: Post by franklin270h » replying to rmongiovi »

He can grind post-2015 geometry to pre-2015 easily, is what I mean.

The SSP cast are different, as SSP had their own custom mold made with a completely different angle. He can't really turn those into a clone of any of the MK burrs because he'd have to cut into the cast teeth to do it. The design is modified with a less dramatic angle (flatter), which is more like his multipurpose machined burrs and is meant to make them more espresso capable-basically more aggressive in the early sections to grind particles finer before it reaches the burr edges. Hansang alluded to this in a few correspondances I've seen, he felt like the old coffee burr struggled with espresso and he wanted to address that. On a personal level I kinda don't see the point of that because that's a problem that the MK new coffee burr already addressed, plus his high and low uniformity machined burrs already cover that use case.

I'd wager the SSP custom makes fewer fines than the MK New coffee burrs, but not the old. Fines are mostly determined by the edge geometry, and on most of his burrs philosophy wise he uses that flatter, more aggressive first and second section in order to be able to get away with a smaller finishing section. In this case he made the early sections more aggressive to be able to get away with something closer to the pre-2015 edge geometry, for more espresso capability than pre-2015. They're probably a pretty good multipurpose burr.

From a convo with a friend a few weeks ago I believe Titus actually has both, but I'll let him answer that one himself. Obviously to regrind MK burrs is more expensive than getting a new cast burr made.

Ejquin
Supporter

#59: Post by Ejquin »

I have the Titus nautilus and if you opt for the ssp pre-2015 cast, it's the version ssp modified. It's not exactly the same as the pre-2015.

coffeemmichael
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#60: Post by coffeemmichael »

rmongiovi wrote:From the pictures I've seen comparing the SSP version with the true pre-2015 - 2020 Coffee Grinder Showdown - converting to the pre-2015 would have to involve adding material, not sharpening unless you removed considerable material to lower then entire burr surface. If you look at the actual pre-2015 burrs the two thicker "breaking teeth" at the inner edge of the burr are about two and a half sections wide. On the SSP version they're only one section wide and then slope down to the thickness of the rest of the burr. I don't see how sharpening could fix that. If you look at the current ek43 burrs for brewed coffee they start sloping down immediately from the high edge. So the SSP version is just slightly in between the current and pre-2015 standard burrs.

I've also seen some speculation that cast burrs are better for brew than machined since they come out of the mold less sharp from the beginning. If that's true then relying on sharpening may be the wrong direction in any case.
This.

FWIW any level of improvement in clarity over current OEM MK 98MM is worth the money, that said I'm glad this difference is actively being noticed & called out rather than taken just at the manufacturer's word

And honestly, the current MK burrs aren't bad-- I'd still pick them (for brew) over any of the 98mm spro burrs, both SSP & Kafatek.