gscace wrote: WRT different machines and different temps - I'm not so sure I buy into that. Most 58mm pf machines use pfs with very similar dimensions.

baskets baskets baskets. the brew basket has to be the same, and it's often not.

Well I am very excited to start using this device - I have been waiting for it since I saw Barry showing it off in Seattle! I have placed my order and am in suspense waiting for brown to deliver. - Thanks Greg!

I've been intrigued with the over the lip measurements compared to straight water measurements using a bead junction placed in the water flow.

I once thought I'd reached temp nirvana with my pidded silvia when over lip measurements revealed a flat temp profile for 95 C for a 30 second pull.

as the experiments progressed though I've realized that means a much higher water temp at the beginning of the pull than would be recommended!

I am very eager to start seeing far more accurately the actual temp profiles of silvia, my 3 group linea and Yes Yes Yes, finally, the NS Oscars I use in the coffee bar at church!

In fact, I expect my initial tests will be with the Oscars and that is where I will have the most to gain as those low volume Hxs are likely where flushing routines are the most critical to consistent and proper temps!

I'll be plugging this device into my pico-08 usb TC device - that is a cool unit - Thanks Barry for the tip there... I love using it with my roaster and have written an excel vb program to capture data in real time so that I can record gas and air settings and follow a roast profile curve - all in real time - some day I'll do a write up of that to share...

Matt Simpson

Oh - and any progress on a full or abbreviated version of the WBC standards to post?

Hey Matt, I look forward to your feedback on the thermofilter once it arrives. It is definitely a big step forward towards standardization and I'm especially intrigued by the training / tuning aspect.

BTW, Greg posted the instructions and procedures yesterday.

MattSimpson wrote: have written an excel vb program to capture data in real time so that I can record gas and air settings and follow a roast profile curve - all in real time

oh that's spiffy!

another_jim wrote:Although Dan found no difference in his blind test; I keep being struck with how differently the same coffees come out when brewed on an E61 and the LM with brew pressures and temperatures set quite closely (using the conventional in-basket TCs).

Jim, what blind test are you referring to? In the Cimbali Junior versus La Marzocco Linea group taste comparison, the goal wasn't to discern a difference, but gauge whether one sample was equivalent, better, or superior to another.

Interesting side note: While not mentioned in the report, Peter Guiliano recused himself from testing because of his familiarity with the unique characteristics of Junior's espresso. He developed Counter Culture's Aficionado blend on it and was certain the appearance of the shots alone would be a "tell" for him.

HB wrote:Jim, what blind test are you referring to? In the Cimbali Junior versus La Marzocco Linea group taste comparison, the goal wasn't to discern a difference, but gauge whether one sample was equivalent, better, or superior to another.

That's the one. I figured if the shots were systematically different, people would have had preferences and you would have mentioned it.

Thanks for the clarification, Jim.

That group test was a surprise for me. I really expected the "pros" to pick the shots from their own equipment straight down the line, but they split their votes. One thing a little different about this test than say an SCAA barista competition is that tasters were specifically asked not to split hairs. That may have skewed the results towards more "equivalent" evaluations than if they were required to pick one over another, no matter how small the distinction. The purpose of constructing the evaluation in that fashion was to avoid the case where somebody's buying decision hinged on one-tenth of a point, which in reality means as close to "no difference" as any (non-super) taster can say.

The machine is only a tool and is rarely the weak link.

For the benefit of those who've never seen the thermofilter in action, I've created a video as part of my study of "extreme precision flushing" for the Elektra A3 writeup. Intelligentsia sent me some Kid O's Organic Espresso and I've been playing with the temperature ranges to see how it reacts. For the video, the target temperature is 201.5F and the flush timing is for when the machine has recently pulled a shot (link).

I plan to include a table similar to Abe's "lazy man's flush chart" that new owners can use to jumpstart their learning curve. The thermofilter doesn't eliminate the need to learn and pay attention, but rather confirms your intuition. With the added feedback, it enabled me to quickly and confidently advance to a whole new level of HX temperature accuracy. Really, really cool.