HB wrote:Agnostic - key characteristics are small, fixed volume flush or none at all, and long thermal memory. Careful tuning of a Mixer with tweaks in the design can produce an espresso machine that is heat exchanger in name only. Examples include the Cimbali Junior and Nuova Simonelli Aurelia.

This section has me a little confused.

Is the sentence that begins "Careful tuning of a Mixer..." misplaced? Did it belong in the Mixer section? Are Cimbali Juniors and NS Aurelias Mixers or Agnostics?

And what is meant by "heat exchanger in name only"? It is a heat exchanger in fact, no matter how it's tuned, so I'm not quite sure what is meant by "in name only".

As a former owner and rebuilder of several Cremina 67's, I can attest to the bullet proofness of the early Olympia machines. I'm heartened to learn Olympia has maintained their quality standards. Steve, in his "Evolution of Design" thread, (referenced above), noted a somewhat diminished quality standard in the 2002 Cremina compared to the 67 model, but it's nothing that approaches the horror of what La Pavoni did by replacing the metal piston and sleeve in the Europiccola with nylon/plastic. The Pavoni modifications may not show up in the cup, but it still does a number on my head.

The lack of autofill and a vacuum breaker don't count for much in my book because most of the machines I use don't have these features. Releasing false pressure, checking the site glass and doing a manual boiler fill are all part of what makes my espresso prep routine special. (I also prefer a stick shift over an automatic).

My guess is, Dan will be happier with the "Hot Headed" Maximatic once the pressurestat is set somewhere south of 1.3. Alternatively, if he sets the Semiautomatica pressurestat to 1.3, I bet he'll like the Gerbicho Rogicha a lot more

timo888 wrote:And what is meant by "heat exchanger in name only"? It is a heat exchanger in fact, no matter how it's tuned, so I'm not quite sure what is meant by "in name only".

I think he means that by careful tuning, the machine can become stable enough that there's no need to flush for temperature management. Yes, it is a heat exchanger, but without the "ritual" involved with flushing, etc.

Bushrod wrote:Yes, it is a heat exchanger, but without the "ritual" involved with flushing, etc.

Claro, hombre.

The term "heat-exchanger" is being used as a synonym/shorthand for "volatile temperature machines that require flushing" even though heat-exchanger designs do not necessarily require flushing and are not necessarily characterized by volatile temperature.

Hi guys,

I think the main question people should ask is what does this machine offer (other than the super quality finish) that makes it so expensive? You can get a lot of other machines which, true aren't finished as well as this one, but are cheaper and offer more bang for your bucks, plus have the vac breaker and autofill and allow to be ran from a plug-in timer. Remember that most people hardly ever take the covers off and want ease of use (and please oh please don't say 'so go buy an auto').

I'm not sure if Olympia is going to sell a lot of these, in my opinion they went well overboard with the price tag. They could have at least included nicer 'goodies', especially the knockbox which is simply...well laughable.

Regards,
dsc.

Speaking of elite machines: the Maximatic is still less than half the price of a La Marzocco GS3 (and we know a few folks who bought that for home use). Such a deal!

It seems to be a simple machine with high quality, over-designed parts that probably delivers the same taste as any other HX.

What you're paying for is the name Olympia and the "limited edition" status that goes along with it.

If history is any indicator, it will have great re-sell in 30 years (unless Olympia sells the name and "little-smoking-espresso-cup-man" logo to Breville for cash).

timo888 wrote:The term "heat-exchanger" is being used as a synonym/shorthand for "volatile temperature machines that require flushing" even though heat-exchanger designs do not necessarily require flushing and are not necessarily characterized by volatile temperature.

I think the term Dragon is being used for this characterization. Not all HX machines are dragons, but this one is.

Endo wrote:It seems to be a simple machine with high quality, over-designed parts that probably delivers the same taste as any other HX.

That's all well and good if we take your implied assumption that any other heat exchanger tastes the same as a priori. However, we cannot do this. So I'd like to know what your vast experience with heat exchanger machines is that tells you that they 'deliver the same taste?' Most of the machines reviewed on this site are heat exchangers, and they're all scored on their ability to produce "exceptional espresso." If you take a gander at a few of them, you'll notice that they don't all have the same score.

So I'm wondering what prompted you to say that. What makes you think that you can evaluate a machine just by looking at it and compare it to a bunch of other machines you haven't used?

Endo wrote:It seems to be a simple machine with high quality, over-designed parts that probably delivers the same taste as any other HX.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but "over-designed" is truly in the eye of the beholder

Endo wrote:What you're paying for is the name Olympia and the "limited edition" status that goes along with it.

I disagree. What you're paying for is a machine of superior build quality that can last a lifetime.

Mine was made in 1983 and it runs like new today. It has the quietest vibe pump I've ever seen and it has other superior-quality features as well; including an extremely simple (and reliable) electrical system, an extremely rigid frame, extremely well-made boiler...etc.

In addition to the truly superior build quality, the Olympia may have the smallest footprint of any HX machine I've ever seen. This machine delivers outstanding performance (for both the shots and with amazing steampower) and when you couple that with the high quality of build and such a small footprint; it makes the Olympia a real standout.

Is it worth $3k? To some people it is. Some people value understated elegance and some people want "the very best" of everything and/or aren't budget-oriented.

For those folks, it may be the ONLY machine worth buying.