Lever Espresso Machines Smackdown - Page 24

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narc

#231: Post by narc »

KarlSchneider wrote:In terms of temperature stability the 2002 Cremina is the best of this group and the 67 Cremina second. While the Lusso never seemed to overheat I had to work constantly to keep it at a good temp to use.
I set the pstat set at 1.0 +/- 0.05 Bars. In my situation the brew temperature even after the machine has reached thermo stability is a bit on the low side for almost all the SO & blends I've used. Flushing just prior to locking the portafilter has consistently yielded a better quality in terms of taste espresso. I probably should increase the pstat setting.

Karl, did the Lusso seem to overheat or underheat in your experience with the machine? At what pstat setting? What do you attribute to the OC 2002's over dosing sensitivity?
LMWDP #151

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peacecup

#232: Post by peacecup »

To keep brew temps constant follow a very standard routine with my PV Export. In my case I turn the machine on from cold, bring it up to temp (~6 min). Then I release false pressure, pull one warming blank shot into the demitasse, lock in the PF and brew. This yields remarkably repeatable results. If I'm brewing more than one shot consecutively I'll do a second or third without cooling the group. These will be slightly hotter because the group sinks less heat. After three, I will cool the group with a wet sponge, bringing it back towards the temp that it was during shots 2 or 3, or even 1.

The principle should be the same on the Lusso - figure out about how warm the group should be for your preference using the digital exam (how many seconds till ouch!), then always get the group to that point before brewing. If the water in the boiler is always the same temp (+/-), and the group is always around the same temp (1,2,3, ouch), then all should be easily repeatable.

In my case I like to brew with the group at a temp where I can comfortably rest my hand on it, but I think I like shots on the cooler side.

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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KarlSchneider

#233: Post by KarlSchneider »

narc wrote:I set the pstat set at 1.0 +/- 0.05 Bars. In my situation the brew temperature even after the machine has reached thermo stability is a bit on the low side for almost all the SO & blends I've used. Flushing just prior to locking the portafilter has consistently yielded a better quality in terms of taste espresso. I probably should increase the pstat setting.

Karl, did the Lusso seem to overheat or underheat in your experience with the machine? At what pstat setting? What do you attribute to the OC 2002's over dosing sensitivity?
Joel,

I found the Lusso to behave just as you describe. The one I had was set to 0.8 bar. I found that if left alone it was too cool for my taste. I also prefer SOs. Flushing does bring the Lusso up to the right temp. I suspect one would have to do the water dance to keep the Lusso warm enough. Just the opposite of my previous ECM Giotto HX where the dance was to cool it down.

I will post the answer to your Cremina question on the Evolution of design thread to keep some orderliness.

KS
LMWDP # 008

Richard

#234: Post by Richard »

KarlSchneider wrote:. . . the Cremina is not currently available except through ebay or other special offerings.
Day before yesterday I asked Olympia Express via e-mail for a quote and delivery estimate for a new Cremina 2002. Yesterday, I received a response with a price and an estimated delivery at the end of March 2008. Based on that, it would appear the Cremina is currently available directly from the maker.
-- Richard

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narc

#235: Post by narc »

Thanks Karl on the feedback. Definitely much easier controlling the brew temp by pre-flushing the group on the Lusso vs. the Microcasa routine I use. A factor that a future lever user may want to consider when deciding between at least the Lusso and Microcasa.
LMWDP #151

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peacecup

#236: Post by peacecup »

KarlSchneider wrote:In case anyone wants some controversy I would say that if I had to have only one machine it would be an Elektra Microcasa a leva. This is because when I get everything right and the coffee gods smile on me I have the most beautiful shots I ever get.
KS, of course I respect your opinion very highly, but just to play devil's advocate, I'd humbly suggest that if you had spent as much time with a Ponte Vecchio as you have with the Elektra, you would find the little 45 (i.e. PV) as equally capable of producing the Nectar of the Gods.

Regards,

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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cannonfodder
Team HB

#237: Post by cannonfodder »

Neither machine produces a better cup than the other, simply a different cup. Your personal preference for flavor/taste will determine which machine best to you. I enjoyed both machines.
Dave Stephens

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KarlSchneider

#238: Post by KarlSchneider replying to cannonfodder »

Dave,

I mostly agree. I would not use the word simply though because having the chance to have such different cups is a big deal to me. Tonight for the fun of it I fired up both the Millenium/2002 Cremina and the Elektra Microcasa a leva. I have a 3 day old Ethiopian DP blend of Moredocafe and Special Selection from SM's (end of bag blend). On days one and two I absolutely loved this roast in the Elektra. I did not plan to use the Cremina because the Elektra's were that good. But tonight I tried both side by side.

First a Cremina shot. I was absolutely dazzled by the incredible creamy texture of the shot. Far better than anticipated. The issue was all about unsurpassed texture in the mouth. Then an Elektra. It was so lean and elegant. They hardly seemed the same. It was all about the taste of the coffee rather than the feel. They were closer to totally different than to simply different. I want to have access to both amazing pleasures.

Jack, I don't quite agree. You are right that my Lusso experience is limited. From that base I would say the Elektra goes in one direction away from the Lusso and the Cremina goes away from the Lusso in the opposite direction. So the Lusso may possibly make shots as good but I seriously doubt it can make shots as different.

KS
LMWDP # 008

CoffeeOwl

#239: Post by CoffeeOwl »

Karl,
could you please add some comparison of the taste of La Pavoni shots vs Elektra's and Cremina's?

And...
cannonfodder wrote:An adjustable digital thermostat which bypasses the pressurestat so I can adjust temperature on the fly, but more on that one later.
Dave, could you please keep your promise and write some more info on that topic? (that is the set-up itself and the temp profile/stability of your 'little man')
I will probably buy La Pavoni in near future and would be very happy and appreciating your elaborations.
Thanks!
'a a ha sha sa ma!


LMWDP #199

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KarlSchneider

#240: Post by KarlSchneider »

CoffeeOwl wrote:Karl,
could you please add some comparison of the taste of La Pavoni shots vs Elektra's and Cremina's?
Pawel,

Your question is a good one. I wish I could respond. Unfortunately I have never had a shot from a Pavoni. There was a time earlier when I thought a Pavoni shot would resemble a Cremina shot since both are manual levers. I no longer assume they would be similar. Until I have the opportunity to learn to use a Pavoni and then to compare it to my Elektra and two Creminas I cannot really answer.

KS
LMWDP # 008