another_jim wrote:John, I wonder if you could comment more on the potential for software updates. I'm told that earlier versions had a problem with spritzy naked extractions and odd pumps sounds, and that this was fixed with a software update. I'm used to software bugs being fixable by updates. But hardware bugs and functionality? That would be a bit of a game changer.

There are software updates for the DE1 app that runs on the Android tablet, and firmware updates for the DE1 itself. The user can download and install these updates from within the app.

Ray Heasman, a largely unsung genius at Decent Espresso, has been responsible for the firmware. Sensor feedback drives underlying models for manipulating temperature, pressure, and flow that are implemented in firmware.

As I understand it, the app software basically serves to communicate with the DE1 firmware. It provides a user interface to select and modify extraction profiles, plot extraction data, start/stop a shot, steam milk, flush the group, etc. But the hardware is controlled by the firmware.

Last fall, Ray introduced a firmware update that incorporated a greatly improved pump model, which essentially eliminated "spritzy" problems. I agree, this is indeed a game changer: the ability to upgrade a machine without replacing hardware.

Re sound:
Truth be told, I've always preferred the purr of a rotary pump to the buzz of a vibe pump. The DE1 has its own unique pump sound, which you can hear in my video. Not a big deal IMHO.

Performance
When you compare it with the S1, do you use the same grind, finer or coarser?
And was it a mimicking profile of the S1?

Extraction profiling on the DE1
I just guess this only can be done with the correct grind?
The desired Pressure and Flow rate also can be only done with right grind I am right? If too fine then like other machines then water runs very slow and coffee will be bitter?

Have you or someone else the DE Grinder and compared it with other grinders? That would be also interesting.
(Design is the same, machine & grinder are nicely matching)

The DE 1 comes with a vibe, anything up in future with a quiet rota?
Its a very nice machine, but an "rather loud vibe pump" at this price level.....

cafemolino wrote:When you compare it with the S1, do you use the same grind, finer or coarser? And was it a mimicking profile of the S1?

In my experience, grind and dose depend more on the basket than the machine. I used the same grind on the DE1 and S1, adjusting dose to account for the difference in diameter (58mm vs 53mm) and hole pattern (precision baskets generally require a finer grind). For the DE1 extraction profile, I specified the shortest possible preinfusion with maximum flow, followed by rise and hold to 9 bar.

cafemolino wrote:The desired Pressure and Flow rate also can be only done with right grind I am right?

Yes.

cafemolino wrote:Have you or someone else the DE Grinder and compared it with other grinders?

I have not.

cafemolino wrote:The DE 1 comes with a vibe, anything up in future with a quiet rota?
Its a very nice machine, but an "rather loud vibe pump" at this price level.....

I have already stated my preference for rotary pumps in this thread, but a rotary pump would increase the size and weight of the machine, and pump control would be quite different. I am not aware of plans to incorporate a rotary pump into DE1 models. If anyone has more information, please let us know.

Re noise: I don't know who you are quoting, but it wasn't me (I used the term "unique" ). Web search turns up a couple of youtube videos with sound volume measurements.

Re Noise

sorry not you what I could hear on various DE videos. I just like Levers, no pump at all

another_jim wrote:John, I wonder if you could comment more on the potential for software updates. I'm told that earlier versions had a problem with spritzy naked extractions and odd pumps sounds, and that this was fixed with a software update. I'm used to software bugs being fixable by updates. But hardware bugs and functionality? That would be a bit of a game changer.

Also, there are still people posting opinions based on the earlier version.

Jim - Great point. In the fall of '18, there was a major firmware update that changed the machine's flow calculation from using the standard flow meter approach to using an algorithm based off pump pulses. This greatly increased the accuracy of flow based shots and removed a lot of the sputters. It was a game changing update for sure.

Other major software updates that improve performance and functionality include increase on max flow (already gone from 6-8ml/s; they are working on bumping that again to 10-12ml/s) and heating the water tank to 60C to allow the machine to do proper pourover duty without losing temp over time.

Comparing the DE1 with the S1 you are getting more clarity.Would you say that temperature wise ,the DE1 is more accurate/stable than a machine with a full saturated group (the s1 is cosnidered to be saturated?) ?

Vashal wrote:Would you say that temperature wise ,the DE1 is more accurate/stable than a machine with a full saturated group (the s1 is cosnidered to be saturated?) ?

The Spaziale Vivaldi is supposed to have excellent temperature stability. But in my experience, it's hard to beat the DE1:

93C +/- 1C throughout the extraction

FWIW, I consider temperature stability (David Schomer's holy grail) to be somewhat overrated.

Conclusion

thank you John for this excellent review!

In Summer it comes with the new group head with some (manual) touch bottoms, that makes it like any other machine, once you choose your preferred profile, just pull the coffee.

I love the steam power, the pump could be quieter

cafemolino wrote:
In Summer it comes with the new group head with some (manual) touch bottoms, that makes it like any other machine, once you choose your preferred profile, just pull the coffee.

Juan, I know what you mean, but you already get a big "Start" button or a simplified skin as seen Decent Espresso DE1+ Review

I've not yet ever gotten a shot out of the DE1 that looks even close to anything like the one in your video. What's the recipe?