Would you upgrade from a Mazzer Super Jolly to Niche Zero? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Mountain

#11: Post by Mountain »

kidloco wrote:I actually moved from Mazzer Major and never looked back. Smaller, quieter, definitely better looking, no retention. I grind, shake, use OCD tool, tamp and go.
I "get" the adjectives you use describing the new grinder (Niche - right?). However, was there a noticeable improvement in shot quality with the Niche?

mgwolf

#12: Post by mgwolf »

I used a SJ for many years, single dosing with the doser attached, and it is a very capable grinder. Although you referenced it as an "entry level grinder", that is only in the last few years. It was designed as a commercial grinder and still is used in many cafes. 5-10 years ago, it was considered a significant upgrade from "entry-level". I now own a Niche which I like a lot, but it's been a few years since I had my SJ and I haven't done any back to back comparisons.
I personally have compared the Niche to a Kafatek Flat and preferred it with some coffees (and preferred the K.Flat with others). But the differences were not large and I would describe them as differences, not negatives.
Having said that, you said you were going to invest in a DB which I think will probably greatly improve your consistency in the cup. The cost-conscious approach would be to use your SJ for a while (as is) with the DB until you're happy with your coffees, then think about a different grinder. You could buy a Niche and compare side by side and sell the one you liked the least. If your SJ is in good condition, you can probably get $3-400 for it at least. If you wanted to sell your Niche, you would take a small hit probably since they're readily available.
If money isn't holding you back, I would get a Niche sooner and do your comparisons sooner. I would have to say that the Niche is more forgiving in its adjustments and much easier to dial in and redial in than the SJ.

Mountain

#13: Post by Mountain »

LObin wrote:I moved from a Fiorenzato F64e to a NZ. Best decision ever (coffee related...).My pulls are way more consistent and overall better.
Not looking back.
I am somewhat in the same decision-making place as @ajk23 except I have a Macap M4. And, your Florenzato sounds like a machine similar in quality to the Macap and MSJ - is that right? This is great input.

LObin

#14: Post by LObin » replying to Mountain »

Actually the Macap M4 has 58mm flat burrs where the SJ and F64E have 64mm flats. I believe the M4 is comparable to the Mazzer mini and Fiorenzato F4E nano.

My F64E was also elctronic and doserless. I could adjust the shot timer by increments of .1 seconds. It was quite a solid commercial grinder and I ended up selling it to a local coffee shop that now use it to grind their decaf.

Still don't miss it at all! Even when hosting guests or pulling multiple shots in a row, my NZ is a pleasure to use.
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belegnole

#15: Post by belegnole »

For what it's worth, I just replaced my Super Jolly with a Niche Zero and couldn't be happier.
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TheMadTamper

#16: Post by TheMadTamper »

LObin wrote: There's a misconception that only flat burrs will produce good espresso. It's quite funny since about 10 years ago, the popular belief was that conical burrs were superior.

You can read up on it but basically, big flat burrs are desired for someone who wants to get the best out of the more modern super light roasts, nordic roasts or even brew roasts. Conicals can extract those but at a lower EY. Next to no difference for dark and medium roasts.
The whole conical thing fully cemented in my mind to take absolutely any "truth" you read about coffee on a forum with a very large grain of organic fair trade sea salt. The fact that the "accepted truth" swung from "there's no difference but speed between an SJ and a Major" to "83mm flats are better and more consistent (except K30 that gets a pass on everything)" to "flat burrs are ok, but conicals a far superior in the cup" to "they're both equals but with different flavor profiles" to "Major beats Robur every time!!" in the span of about 10-12 years is really the hallmark of internet hobby culture in any hobby. Everyone riding the big flat train today will be told in 10 years time that that was all false and based on not "knowing as much as we know now." By then we'll be singing the praises of whirly blade grinders. :roll:
mgwolf wrote:attached, and it is a very capable grinder. Although you referenced it as an "entry level grinder", that is only in the last few years. It was designed as a commercial grinder and still is used in many cafes. 5-10 years ago, it was considered a significant upgrade from "entry-level". I now own a Niche which I like a lot, but it's been a few years since I had my SJ and I haven't done any back to back compariso
The average HB'er and the average cafe have very different ideas of "entry level." For the average HB'er, turning 2-5 shots a day, an SJ is entry level, and the prize is really 83mm flats or 64mm conical, or a $2k+ single dosing grinder. For the average cafe, an SJ is overkill for less than 20 shots an hour. Unless it's a hipster cafe where a mortar and pestle is all that will suffice. :wink:
lancealot wrote: Some people here are chasing 3rd wave god-shot nirvana, see coffee waste as the biggest threat to the planet and pay over $30/lb for beans. Some people might just want to make a latte as fast and efficiently as possible. Either of these 2 situations are awesome and should be encouraged / celebrated but if the advise seeker is on one end of this spectrum and the advise giver is on the other end, whatever advise that is given won't be very useful.
This is golden advice!
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lancealot

#17: Post by lancealot »

My spelling! :oops:

kidloco

#18: Post by kidloco »

Mountain wrote:I "get" the adjectives you use describing the new grinder (Niche - right?). However, was there a noticeable improvement in shot quality with the Niche?
The problem with that is first my lack of experience, and then the fact that at the same time I switched to Niche, I installed Chris thermometer on my E61 group. So yes, I think that my shots are generally better but I do not know is it due to the fact of the temperature of my shots or because I expect them to be better If you get me... There is one thing that is obvious though: grind is definitely more fluffy and naked extractions are much better.

Mountain

#19: Post by Mountain » replying to kidloco »

Thanks to you and others I am poorer now (haha) since ordering a Niche which is somewhere between the UK and CA. There seems to be a clear consensus that the Niche is a step-function improvement to grinders in the M4 (which is what i have) class at least. So, instead of fooling around and waiting until the Niche price goes up in a couple months I ordered one now.

LObin

#20: Post by LObin » replying to Mountain »

Sorry... :D
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