Would I regret buying the Profitec Pro 700 over the 500?

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
ben8jam

Postby ben8jam » Jan 07, 2018, 6:46 pm

$900 difference. The Pro 500 is on its way. I feel I never got my questions really answered from the sales person at WLL. And now I'm feeling like I made a mistake, but mostly because I don't feel I got much useful information when I called to place my order.

A dual boiler with PID will be more precise than a HX with Sirai. The steam power on the DB will be superior to a HX. The footprint of the 700 is massive compared to the 500. The rotary pump is way better, but he said the cost to replace one is $600! I can plumb a 700 maybe one day.

Does a PID on a HX really make that much difference over a Sirai on a HX? I opted for the Sirai as I feel with a HX + e61 you've got a lot of variables for temp changes, and the steam boiler being dead on only helps a little.

The sales rep didn't think cooling flushes on a HX e61 mattered and he just "trusted' the machine was ready to go whenever he wanted to pull a shot. This I feel is just wrong, and even WLL has a video on the importance of cooling flushes.

He had to look up all the stats on the machines, and I understand people can't keep a catalog of stats on all machines, but some of the things were pretty basic, that even I knew and was correcting him on. Over all I'm feeling like I didn't get to really hammer out the benefits.

My biggest concern with the 700 is that it is so big. And the little tray to lift the cups up is just an eyesore (stupid I know) [EDIT, a fellow HB'er pointed out that since I use a scale to weigh my shots, the little tray is unnecessary - ALSO I have to buy a table/island for the Pro 500 regardless, so the footprint of the 700 I guess isn't that big of a deal].

And the cost to replace a pump at $600 is worrisome... Arg. Help? Though it's probably too late. 500 will be here on Friday...

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slipchuck

Postby slipchuck » Jan 07, 2018, 7:52 pm

I look at it like choosing between a BMW and Mercedes Benz.... they are both high end just in different ways. You can't go wrong with either choice


Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

ben8jam

Postby ben8jam » Jan 07, 2018, 8:09 pm

slipchuck wrote:I look at it like choosing between a BMW and Mercedes Benz.... they are both high end just in different ways. You can't go wrong with either choice


I feel like it's more between an M3 and a 335.

I feel ECM vs Profitec would be more Merc vs BWM.... Or maybe Maserati vs BWM

bluediesel77

Postby bluediesel77 » Jan 07, 2018, 8:20 pm

Why would the steam power be superior on the 700. They both use a 2l boiler with a 1400 watt heating element, which should make it the same steaming capacity.

I for one wouldn't be discouraged over the replacement cost of a rotary pump because they don't fail very often. Chances are a vibe pump will fail more often than a rotary. There's a motor and a separate pump. If one does fail it's never both at the same time. Having said that, my old vibe pump is still working 10 years now, my rotary on its first year.

You're just having buyers anxiety, I know how you feel, but your overthinking it far too much. The Pro 500 is a very capable machine, but it's your grinder that will dictate how good your shots will be.

ben8jam

Postby ben8jam » replying to bluediesel77 » Jan 07, 2018, 8:41 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Good point on the steam capacity, I'm not sure why it would be better... The 500 comes with a 2 hole wand while the 700 comes with a 4. So either there is some difference that allows for the 4, or they just include it because you're paying more....

Def buyers anxiety, no regrets on the actual money, just starting to think rotary, plumb, db, & pid --- is worth $900. If the sales process had felt more informed (so far I've gotten better and more thoughtful feedback from you and another HB member who has sent me some PMs) I might feel more confident.

kwantfm

Postby kwantfm » Jan 07, 2018, 9:24 pm

I owned an ECM Technika Profi IV (ECM equivalent of the Profitec Pro 500) and subsequrntly the Profitec Pro 700. I think that you'd like both a lot and if space is a serious consideration then you've made the right choice.

The heat exchanger on the ECM/Profitec machines is very stable so I didn't experience wild variability with my Technika. Steam pressure for both was excellent.

Honestly I think you're just fine... enjoy!
LMWDP #602

Nunas

Postby Nunas » Jan 07, 2018, 9:29 pm

ben8jam wrote:Does a PID on a HX really make that much difference over a Sirai on a HX? I opted for the Sirai as I feel a HX + e61 you've got a lot of variables for temp changes, and the steam boiler being dead on only helps a little.

No it does not. And your rational is correct IMHO. I personally would not pay extra for a PID on an HX, although I would not reject an HX simply because it has a PID rather than a pressure stat.

sprin001

Postby sprin001 » Jan 07, 2018, 10:26 pm

I had a r58 and am going back to hx because I like them better. The only practical disadvantage I can see is the lack of plumbability, the rest could be debated.

ben8jam

Postby ben8jam » replying to sprin001 » Jan 07, 2018, 11:04 pm

I would love to hear your thoughts on HX vs DB. Some other comments I received were that the HX offers more gradual temp decrease while pulling a shot which aids in extraction. Also that a vibe pump ramps up pressure slower than rotary which is more forgiving on a shot.

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HB
Admin

Postby HB » Jan 07, 2018, 11:12 pm

ben8jam wrote:I would love to hear your thoughts on HX vs DB. Some other comments I received were that the HX offers more gradual temp decrease while pulling a shot which aids in extraction.

There's dozens of threads debating that question. I even made a video: Heat Exchanger vs. Double Boiler Espresso Machines.

Also that a vibe pump ramps up pressure slower than rotary which is more forgiving on a shot.

That's measurable (see Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor), but the difference to the barista is debatable. If it turns out to be a concern for a rotary pump espresso machine later down the road, replace the E61's gicleur with one having a smaller opening and voilà, slower pressure rise.
Dan Kehn