slipchuck wrote:Go with the la Cimbali

I tend to agree! Junior's really just Oscar taken to a much higher level, and it does fit in the same corner of the counter. The build quality seems superb, which is important for more than just my own appreciation. I may be old, but I hope to still be pulling shots long enough to have to rebuild an ECM when I'm off to assisted living - and I don't know if the nurses will let me have sharp tools. But Junior would just be broken in by then

I understand Ben's concerns because I lived them. I know now that I wouldn't have had the fun or gotten the experience I have if I'd taken this advice 45 years ago when I got married - but I spent a ton of money on stuff that didn't make anything any better. So attention, Ben (and everybody else out there with the same worries about choosing the "wrong" machine" from among multiple fine ones): most of those machines are capable of making better coffee than most of us are - so love the one you choose and make it your own. Drown your sorrows in fine coffee, not regret.

The simple truth for most of us is that we got nothing in return for most of the money we've spent in pursuit of "better" except the experience itself. So if you don't look for new knowledge, skill & experience in everything you come across, you're probably wasting your time and your money. Fortunately, I loved every minute with pretty much everything I ever bought, and I learned something from almost every piece - coffee machines, musical instruments, watches, cameras, cars, tools, kitchen gadgets, wine, audio equipment etc etc. But my coffee and my sound and my guitars and my welding equipment and my lathe etc etc were better than I was long before I stopped trying to buy up. Oh well - at least, I've had great fun along the way!

The older you get, the fewer knobs you need.

PS: I knew this intuitively many years ago - so I just bit the bullet and got the best available wife first time out. All I have to do now is find a way to let her see how big the Cimbali is compared to the machines we've had over the last 45 years, and I'm good to go (I hope...)

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:If you're really torn up about it, pay the extra $100 shipping and be done with it. In a year from now which purchase would you like to be more regretful about having gotten, the 500 or the 700?

$100+$900=1,000 all your really "need" is a group head thermometer and then put the money on a grinder.

Randy

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:If you're really torn up about it, pay the extra $100 shipping and be done with it. In a year from now which purchase would you like to be more regretful about having gotten, the 500 or the 700?

The $100 shipping is cheaper than the loss of resale value if you end up upgrading. I bought the Pro 500 and am looking at the sexy Synchronika as we speak.

Oh boy, did you crack under the DB pressure?

bluesman wrote:So attention, Ben (and everybody else out there with the same worries about choosing the "wrong" machine" from among multiple fine ones): most of those machines are capable of making better coffee than most of us are - so love the one you choose and make it your own. Drown your sorrows in fine coffee, not regret.

Try out the HX , you might learn to make great coffee and half the fun is squeezing every ounce of performance out of what you've got. Good luck! Spend the difference on customization with some beautiful woods or accessories.

ben8jam wrote:Oh boy, did you crack under the DB pressure?

Not yet, but probably will before the end of 2018, haha

NO, do not get carried away by forum extremes.
1) HXs are very easy to use or temperature surf if you focus on taste rather than numbers. Once you learn to walk, you never think about it again.
2) Flushing is a good practice for any machine. Cleaning group between shots is good.
3) Fresh water every-time I pull espresso is a great plus. Esp, after the weird taste of water out of any boiler in use (at least to me). Espresso masks it, but why

"ben8jam wrote Called WLL customer service to ask about my options - and long story short I'm SOL. I'll have to pay return shipping which will probably be $100 if I decide to go with the 700."
I have more bad news for you, when you get the RMA to return the 500 (mine's going back as soon as the 700 arrives) WLL will deduct from your refund the original amount they paid for shipping it to you When you think about it, that's really fair though.
Having said that, it's worth it IMO. I have been experimenting/learning with the 500 for almost the month and have decided I would rather spend my time learning how to pull great shots without worrying about the temp and rebound time which for my needs is much too slow with the 500.
In the morning I pull first pull my wife's shot then make another for me. The machine just doesn't seem to be able to handle that temperature if you are trying to keep it at 199-200. Don't even think about a third shot if you screwed up one of the first 2, well at my experience level.
So anyway I decided it was well worth the extra money for the consistency and convenience of the PID DB machine, plus the other features.
I think the 500 is actually an excellent machine, it just doesn't fit what I need it to do and fortunately at this time I can absorb the extra cost, otherwise I would probably be happy enough and would just learn to work with the temperature issues.

Good call, you will not regret getting the 700. It is very forgiving great built machine that pulls amazing shots.

If they use UPS to ship, there's always a chance they're gonna destroy the 500 before it even gets to you, so you wouldn't have to pay for shipping it back as a damage claim...happened to my first Vetrano.