Spitz.me wrote:Would anyone pay for a Ferrari if it looked like a 3 series BMW?

That's a good question, and not entirely rhetorical!

As Luca pointed out earlier,

luca wrote:I suspect that with most machines on the market, except the few that are really out of whack, what will probably happen is that users will try different coffee and find something that suits the machine. If you're the type that will find a single coffee and then stick with it, then the choice of machine probably becomes less important. If you want to swap coffees around, or have multiple different coffees on the go at once, you probably start to benefit more from having a machine that allows you to make adjustments.

Like automobiles, if a BMW 3 series is enough fun to drive on the roads you chose to drive, then you're not going to buy a Ferrari, or an off-road equipped Jeep, or a full-on rally car. The answer of "best car" really depends on where you drive, and how hard.

Until you've driven some of those roads, it can be hard to understand the attraction. For me, it was smelling a Kenyan on the V60 bar in Four Barrel's first years. I asked the barista, "Have you pulled shots with this?" I'm glad I ignored his face which said much more than his words around what a bad idea that seemed to him. What came out of my Anita back then started me down a bumpy, twisty road that my "car" of the day could barely handle, bouncing into the ditch about half the time, but one that I am glad I followed.

Jeff wrote: it can be hard to understand the attraction. For me, it was smelling a Kenyan on the V60 bar in Four Barrel's first years. I asked the barista, "Have you pulled shots with this?" I'm glad I ignored his face...

Hahaha. I had the same reaction about a coffee of Kenya when I asked about it for espresso from a female barista a number of years ago. Shocked she was.

I'd love to buy a Decent if the pipes where not made of plastic... I don't like to mix that with food; but I also have to admit I'm maybe a bit weird on that ahah

Interesting thread. I could list a few reasons, but none of them would be objective.
- Looks (everything has already been said)
- Price: in that price range, I'd still be tempted to buy a commercial lever instead

Those 2 are enough for me, even if objectively I know it shows a ton of useful information on the shots, heats up faster, uses fresh water that doesn't go stale in a boiler etc...

For me, poor steaming is the big one. The whole machine seems mostly designed for a single person making a single espresso. Its for experimenting, too techy. I would love to have one if i could have two machines, but i would be really hard pressed to choose it as my only machine unless it was a great price. Price, by the way, is just damn expensive. Also, i don't necessarily think it's ugly, but i wouldn't be excited to display it as part of a really nice coffee bar either.

Overall i see it more as single person lab equipment than a nice home accent piece.

As somebody who owned a DE1 for a year and sold it, I might stray a bit from the general consensus.

I wouldn't buy a DE1 because I love lever machines, and I found that you absolutely don't need a DE1 to make exceptional espresso, even with light so coffees.

A reason to buy a DE1 is that you want to be able to tinker and play with different profiles. You want to be able to automate the process, or on the other end of the spectrum, you want full control over the process. You want to be able to change lots of variables and see what happens. You don't want FOMO when somebody talks about a slayer shot, or a lever shot, or an e61 shot, or flow control, or pressure profiling, etc. Those are all reasons to buy a DE1.

But, if you just want to make excellent espresso, you do not need to buy a DE1, and I'd argue further that if you are of a personality that finds it hard to just let things be, you might even find the capabilities of the DE1 prevents you from consistently pulling excellent espresso, because you're too busy changing the variables and playing with different profiles.

With that said, it's a very cool machine and if you want a modern espresso "lab" type setup, then nothing will beat it.

I ordered the PRO Feb 28, it's listing a 6 month back log now. I confirmed that mine will be shipped in the 3-4 week window as it was listed when I ordered it. I was debating on waiting a few months to pull the trigger, I'm glad I didn't as it seems I got in on the last of this bunch. I appreciate the transparency but that's a big delay, they must be retooling or something to ramp up production. Still this may be a covid phenomenon where too many changes to operations may not be sustainable. So if you want one shipped in 4 weeks right now you need to order the XL or XXL. The plus has been taken off production and the PRO has a 6 month waiting list. It may be a way to phase out these machines as demand increases but I would hate these bottom level ones discontinued as the original DE1 was.

DamianWarS wrote: It may be a way to phase out these machines as demand increases but I would hate these bottom level ones discontinued as the original DE1 was.

According to what they wrote this is all about max capacity, so time to cut out the lower margin machines. Doubt you will see lower priced ones available again so your timing was good.

Current pricing
DE1+: $2999 (not accepting orders)
DE1PRO: $3399 (26 week wait)
DE1XL: $3799 (3-4 week wait)
DE1XXL: $4199 (3-4 week wait)

it seems clear where their interests lie and with all the videos about x number of lattes in 10 minutes they are pushing a commercial space over a home space.

wasn't the original goal to produce amazing espresso under $1000? seems they have abandoned this and are now moving towards an elite space. if the plus is dropped like the original, which seems to be inevitable, and later the PRO should we expect another $400 raise on the next released model? You will know they want the commercial space when they release the DE2 (2 group decent)

Didn't Decent's predecessor ZPM had to bail because of misjudging manufacturing? seem ironically decent is in a similar position (just with control) and I know they are trying to prevent a ZPM fiasco and are not collecting money for machines they can't produce, which I applaud, but it's a shame the focus has shifted the way it has. They should license out the ones they don't want to focus on to get the units to people that still want them at a more affordable price point and give them the breathing space so they can focus on their passion products.

mgrayson wrote:If I had vertical room in the kitchen, I'd ditch the pump machine and get a lever.

Interesting. You have a GS3 but you might prefer a lever? Is it because of the experience or do you think it would reliably do better in other ways?