lessthanjoey wrote:Nobody is saying that people who talk a lot are by definition correct, but they're also not by definition wrong. You're throwing out an awful lot of strawman arguments here.

This.

Also nobody is saying that everyone needs this machine, or saying don't buy anything else. For me personally, there is no alternative however. I'm not big on buying an ancient design with poor efficiency, large temperature swings requiring flushing before pulling a shot, a warmup time of 45 minutes because of all the metal, and... oops I went there anyway, sorry.

I will say this: the Decent has delivered more insights into what does work and what doesn't work than any other piece of gear in the last few decades (at least that I can think of). Insights which will inevitably trickle down to all other machines eventually, or even just to the techniques we use that give us the best extractions.

My post is up. It will expand over time.

The Machine MOST of You Should Buy

My two bobs worth...

Like you, I'm expecting delivery of a Decent in April. I will be keeping my gorgeous ECM Synchonika however because I like it's looks, the rotary pump, the engineering quality and I like the idea of continuing to play on it.

Would I buy another machine if I'd only had the Decent to start with? Yes indeed, because (a) I can, and (b) I really like trying new stuff.

mmntip wrote:This.

Also nobody is saying that everyone needs this machine, or saying don't buy anything else. For me personally, there is no alternative however. I'm not big on buying an ancient design with poor efficiency, large temperature swings requiring flushing before pulling a shot, a warmup time of 45 minutes because of all the metal, and... oops I went there anyway, sorry.

I will say this: the Decent has delivered more insights into what does work and what doesn't work than any other piece of gear in the last few decades (at least that I can think of). Insights which will inevitably trickle down to all other machines eventually, or even just to the techniques we use that give us the best extractions.

I think the decent gives you basic as well as an advanced environment but everything in a best case scenario vacuum. If it were to simulate an E61 it doesn't simulate all the heating and prep nuances so after you've perfected it and moved to the actual E61 you're probably going to pull bad shots because you don't know how to control things like temp. The Decent just gives you the temp you ask and where this is a good thing you haven't learnt what it takes to get to that temp. Perhaps not an issue for many but if you want to use the decent to learn other machines the decent is almost like like a flight simulator in that respect. You may know how to make espresso when the environment is perfect but you don't know how to prep the environment so that it is perfect.

I love the LIST! of CarefreeBuzzBuzz on page 3 It should be part of the entry knowledge to coffee

The only reason you WOULDNT buy a Decent is if you
Like to waste time temp surfing
Like to waste water temp surfing
Like to pull levers - maybe if you are a retired engineer or something . LOL
OR you just don't want the BEST cup of coffee possible .
Bottom lobe if your after the best espresso possible the DE1 won't be beat .

You know your product made it when:

1 - Someone posts a 4000 word essay over 3 posts about why it MIGHT NOT BE "best" for you.
2 - People ask why they shouldn't buy it.

This is not meant to throw shade, it's instead to highlight that John and his team have made incredible strides with the Decent machine. I don't think many predicted that he could take a massive failure in ZPM and make it a massively successful product without selling it for pennies.

Although I didn't read all the post I wouldn't buy this machine for the following two reasons
1) too many electronics. I am a tech guy and I like all of them, but I know they are prone to break very easy and soon. So if you want your machine to last 20 years you should be able to find replacement boards
2) price. Although the price is not extravagant it is not in my budget but this is just me

I'm sure it can make espresso better than my Carola does, but my Carola routinely makes better espresso than many of the shop around here. Until I spend more than 3k on a car, I can't really justify more than 3k on a coffee maker ha ha. I feel this thread is along the lines "why wouldn't you buy a Bently?"

I skipped the Decent due to the tablet and aesthetic. This is coming from a Londinium R that wouldn't fit in our new home. I opted for a Vesuvius to balance modern pressure profiling with a more classic look and feel.

I briefly considered a Decent after a co-worked raved about his, but I can't get into the tablet. I look at screens all day and just don't want another one during my small break making a latte.