Hi All

I know this is something asked all the time and Ive been viewing the forums for a while but keep going in circle. Im looking for a machine a grinder and dont currently own anything. I drink primarily latte or flat whites and the occasional espresso so the foaming capability is important, my taste is the kind of lattes produced in places like Intelligentsia\Groundworks here in LA, and used to be Monmouth coffee in London. I will only be doing 1-2 coffees a day and more when people visit. I wont be doing anything other than espresso\latte

My budget was around 1K for both but am realising I probably going to be looking at 1.5-2K for a good combo.

Can someone help me decide on a good purchase without the need to upgrade later? I wont have the ability to plumb the machine in for a while.

Thanks
Nick

My cheapest "about as good as it gets" espresso recommendation would be the Baratza Vario grinder mated with one of the better entry level HX machines, the Bezzera BZ02 or BZ07, the Quickmill Anita, or the Vibiemme Domobar.

I second Jim's recommendations. While I have no experience with it, the Baratza Vario is the current go-to grinder for the upper-end entry-level crowd. The only way to best it, dollar for dollar, is to find a used Mazzer (Major, Super Jolly, etc.). The HX machines he mentioned are all very capable and will give many years of service if maintained.

Thanks for replies Jim and Randy. After your confirmations I am set on going for the Vario. Still a little bit caught on the machine. I am leaning towards the Anita but also like the look of the new Alex II, is it worth spending the extra? Also would you recommend the Salvatore Semi? Only reason I ask is they are only a couple of hours away from me.

Thanks
Nick

As far as entry level double boilers go, personally, I don't think they are enough of an improvement to be worth the extra cost, warm up time, and energy use. Many would disagree.

More unanimous opinions on machines are about group design for espresso and the boiler size for steaming. Boilers as small as one liter work well for making temperature stable espresso, but ones smaller than about 1.75 to 2 liters steam so slowly that you will come to see them as a serious limitation within a few years of using an HX or double boiler. There are two proven group designs in entry level machines'-- the clones of of the E61 manual and auto groups used in many semi-commercial machines, and the clones of the double dispersion block Brasilia group used by Bezzera and Elektra. There are other common groups, like the Nuova Simonelli Oscar and Rossi groups (used in the Isomac Relax and some of the older Salvatore machines) that have never garnered anyone's enthusiastic support. This may be unfair, but in the absence of competent advocates, I'd be loath to buy one of these machines myself without putting it through its paces

Thanks Jim. Was that with regard to the Alex Duetto? I was thinking more the HX Alex II http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/alex

I was going to suggest the Quickmill Silvano, but I see that they are sold out now, with a new shipment due next year at the higher price.

Thanks for all the help already. These forums are a killer, my budget is rising by the day

I think i have narrowed it down to HX machines Vibiemme or Rocket as they fill my needs and the fit an finish of both seem to be great. Part of me really feels i would like the flexibility of have a plumbed in and tank version which is why i was looking at the Alex II until i discovered the Rocket Evoluzione series which seems to offer everything in terms of quality, looks and flexibility.

Am I crazy to be now looking at a $2200 machine?

nkkm wrote:Am I crazy to be now looking at a $2200 machine?

You're asking the wrong crowd...by that criteria we're almost all crazy. This is a dangerous business you are getting into but that's part of the fun of it. At this rate we'll have you buying a Speedster by later tonight.

BTW - don't click this link http://www.flickr.com/photos/lapotenza/ ... 88390@N25/

You have to keep in mind that most of the quality in the cup is going to come before the portafilter gets filled. Machines are hot water delivery devices and all machines need to be fed high quality fresh beans prepared by someone who has spent the time to learn how to prepare the shot. If there is a chance this will gather dust over time then perhaps you can take it easy a bit, practice practice practice, and then find out what upgrades fit your workflow/use. There is resale value in used espresso machines so you can recoup a sizable chunk of your investment.

Once you perfect your barista skills, you can then decide which features (plumb in, leaving on, DB, preinfusion) you feel are going to make your life better.

The other part about this is that the recommendation of the Vario + HX is based on the best grinder for the buck in the $500 range (to give you $1000 to get an HX). If you are going to increase the budget, you will get more out of putting the extra money into the grinder - such as an upgrade to the Super Jolly or another tank grinder.

nkkm wrote:Am I crazy to be now looking at a $2200 machine?

Some rationale, if it helps:

• Unlike many hobbies (golf, audio/video), you reach the "high end" very quickly. Above $1400, the differences among espresso machines is vanishingly small.
• The same holds true for grinders. They peak around $700 (flat burr) to $1400 (conical). You could spend over $2000 for a Mazzer Robur, but unless you're running a cafe, there's no rational reason to consider it.
• Resale on high-end espresso equipment is good. Mazzer grinders typically go for 50% to 70% of the current retail price. Resale value of used espresso machine is less reliable since their value is tied to popularity. If you pick a popular model, it will sell for the same 50% to 70% of current retail price, should you decide to upgrade someday.

Final thought... there are few purchases that will give you and your family/friends pleasure every day. That's why for me, when it comes to espresso gear, I shop on capability/convenience/quality first and price last.