What espresso machine would you buy (used) for $1000 budget? - Page 3

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
cccpu

#21: Post by cccpu »

Barberdolan wrote:Got offered a rocket apartamento which is just one year old and still under warranty (local pickup) for $1200 so the same cost as a new BDB. Definitely prefer the look of a rocket but perhaps going with a brand new machine would be a better option.
I have a Rocket Apartamento at work, I had a Linea Mini at my house for a year, and then I got the BDB while the Linea Mini was still at home... and I stopped using the Mini and never went back... I do not ever want to use the Apartamento at work for various reasons, one being I am used to using a machine that will do exactly what I tell it to do, and where I know exactly what it is doing too... The temperature controls and stability are to be commended on the BDB and will give you an accurate point of feedback as to why your shots are tasting the way they are in a much more helpful way than an E61 HX.
LMWDP #583
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Barberdolan (original poster)

#22: Post by Barberdolan (original poster) » replying to cccpu »


I hear you. The BDB is definitely more programmable so more control there. However I am a sucker for build quality and things that last a long time and the Rocket is superior in that regard. It's also smaller and would fit perfectly in my tiny NYC apartment kitchen. Definitely a little torn here haha.

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pcrussell50

#23: Post by pcrussell50 »

Barberdolan wrote: I hear you. The BDB is definitely more programmable so more control there. However I am a sucker for build quality and things that last a long time and the Rocket is superior in that regard. It's also smaller and would fit perfectly in my tiny NYC apartment kitchen. Definitely a little torn here haha.
"Build quality" LOL.

1) If I had a ten cent bit for every time that vague term is brought up on HB...

2) Which is more fragile, a main battle tank, or an F1 car? But which has higher build quality?

3) Elastomeric bits wear out. Tires, windshield wipers, brakes. In a car, we fix it and keep going. In an espresso machine, they are cheaper and easier.

4) There was a thread a few months back that was about defining "build quality". The money quote was from Assaf, who said something like,
Assaf:
"If it performs the way I expect it to perform, fails the way I expect it to fail, and fixes the way I expect it to fix, it is of high build quality."
Assaf does not have a BDB, btw.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

foam2

#24: Post by foam2 »

If you were to ask me price being equal between a dual boiler and a heat exchanger machine I would pick the dual boiler almost always. I understand what you mean by the build quality and design and there is something to be said about that. If you want an e61 then you should consider a dual boiler e61 with pid and flow control which is basically what you could do with the bdb. I don't want to push you in any direction just know the comparison isn't the same with the bdb being more capable than the rocket but the rocket has a nicer build. You will be able to pull a more consistent shot on the dual boiler and may have to do some temperature surfing on the hx and temperature will not be held in a tighter range like the pid can. I had the bdb and synchronika side by side for a couple weeks and I couldn't tell the difference in the cup and I suspect most people won't be able to either. Ultimately both machines are good just know there are trade offs either way.

Jeff
Team HB

#25: Post by Jeff »

Aesthetics can be a reason to decide against a BDB, I agree. If you frown when you go to make coffee, it's never going to taste great.

The cost of routine maintenance parts of an E61 adds up over the years. It's not like you can buy an Italian-made espresso machine and ignore it. The components that are likely to fail are generally off-the-shelf and shared across machines, including the BDB. For the rest, Breville's in-house technical resources and sway over suppliers are advantages that the Italian brands don't have. The "long tradition" of Italian machines is an amusing rabbit hole, involving all kinds of unexpected things.

"So many complaints on the Internet" doesn't hold water for me either. I wouldn't be surprised if Breville sells more BDBs this Black Friday alone than Rocket sells in years.

Barberdolan (original poster)

#26: Post by Barberdolan (original poster) »

Jeff wrote:Aesthetics can be a reason to decide against a BDB, I agree. If you frown when you go to make coffee, it's never going to taste great.
Yeah I definitely don't really like the look of the Breville and since working on a Faema e61 years ago in once of my first cafe jobs, I always loved the look of a classic machine. It's hard to pass on a such a pretty machine which is also capable of making great tasting espresso. For me the experience plays a huge role and I think I would enjoy owning this machine more than a BDB. But hey if I decide I don't like it, I can always sell it.

Jeff
Team HB

#27: Post by Jeff »

If you do decide to go with an E61 HX, an EricS group-head thermometer would be an accessory essential I'd add immediately. The HX system works well when tuned to a busy cafe with a continuous rhythm. At home you need to make your own rhythm with pre-shot cooling flushes.

Also remember to let it heat up at least 40 min before pulling shots. A new HX owner struggling with sour shots reminded me of the importance of this.

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Barberdolan (original poster)

#28: Post by Barberdolan (original poster) » replying to Jeff »


Thanks for the tip. Just wondering if the group head thermometer has to be an Eric's one or there are any other out there that do a similar job?

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slybarman

#29: Post by slybarman »

Place notifications on your local and surrounding Craigslists. You have to be patient, but deals do pop up on good late model db machines. Be ready to pounce before anyone else when one presents itself. It may take some months, but it will happen. Best if you have a particularly wealthy town nearby. They buy and discard toys.

Jeff
Team HB

#30: Post by Jeff »

Barberdolan wrote:Just wondering if the group head thermometer has to be an Eric's one or there are any other out there that do a similar job?
I can only comment my experience with the EricS unit. i bought mine probably 15 years ago. It was, as I vaguely recall, @cannonfodder that was poking around with how to measure the group-head temperature. As I recall, Eric worked with a leading manufacturer of pressure fittings to get one with the proper thread for most E61 groups. Monitoring Brew Temperature - E61 Groups covers the device he provides in great detail. In all those years, mine has performed well, leak-free, with only a battery change earlier this year.