We gave up
Our home coffee journey went from Turkish style coffee to pods (Dolce Gusto), to basic automatic bean to cup machine to full blown semi automatic espresso machine with separate grinder. All this time, we were looking for really good espresso, long espresso, americano and sometimes cappuccino. I'm not sure we ever really got a really good espresso. We changed beans, we learned, we tried but there was always something off. Or if it was right one day, it wasn't any more the next. Another problem are family members who simply don't learn the technics, hate the scale and their coffee is even worse. We also don't drink a lot of coffee, so beans get old quickly.
All in all, we have enough and want to go back to easier, constant ways. I don't have a problem with milk, i can buy a separate machine just for milk frothing and it will make me great froth any time. I won't use powder milk in pods, etc.
But good enough espresso? Where to go for that? Nespresso machine and pods? There is incredible selection of pods, i read for italian style espresso, Cellini pods are way to go. Caffitaly machines and pods?
Or back to bean to coffee machines where you need to deal with beans again?
All in all, we have enough and want to go back to easier, constant ways. I don't have a problem with milk, i can buy a separate machine just for milk frothing and it will make me great froth any time. I won't use powder milk in pods, etc.
But good enough espresso? Where to go for that? Nespresso machine and pods? There is incredible selection of pods, i read for italian style espresso, Cellini pods are way to go. Caffitaly machines and pods?
Or back to bean to coffee machines where you need to deal with beans again?
Well, I think it depends on what is "good enough". Keep in mind this is a forum where people go to great depths of fussing and sweating to get even marginal improvements in cup.
In my opinion it is hard to easily replicate the shop quality espresso at home. It requires fussing about things like storing the beans so they don't go stale (freezing in single doses is your friend here, especially for darker roasts), coffee puck prep, making sure you don't get stale grounds from the grinder (purging, single dosing, weighing), controlling your water quality, making sure brew temperatures are correct, finding fresh enough beans, and so on and so forth.
A good, busy shop would usually have more temperature stable machines, beans going out fast so they don't stale, doser grinders so they wouldn't have static / clumping issues, water treated to a specific mixture of minerals (well, at least the better shops), and so on.
If you really like espresso style coffee, but don't want to go all the way to make sure it is done correctly, then Nespresso and other pod systems or the bean-to-cup autos are the way to go. I personally don't think they make coffee that is how espresso should be, at least I have yet to taste such a full-auto. But for many they are just right; no strong flavors that either offend or excite, comes out exactly the same each and every time, has "crema", is in the espresso volume roughly, easy as push button.
Having to choose between the two, I would personally go with Nespresso myself as I'm too lazy to clean full-autos and frankly I trust the industrial grinders and machinery Nestlè has more than I do what is in a full-auto machine.
But to get good coffee that is more dense than drip / pour over coffee, and that is easy to prepare, I would actually just get a moka pot of some sort. Perhaps the Bialetti Brikka.
Just a few musings since I don't think there is a correct answer here.
In my opinion it is hard to easily replicate the shop quality espresso at home. It requires fussing about things like storing the beans so they don't go stale (freezing in single doses is your friend here, especially for darker roasts), coffee puck prep, making sure you don't get stale grounds from the grinder (purging, single dosing, weighing), controlling your water quality, making sure brew temperatures are correct, finding fresh enough beans, and so on and so forth.
A good, busy shop would usually have more temperature stable machines, beans going out fast so they don't stale, doser grinders so they wouldn't have static / clumping issues, water treated to a specific mixture of minerals (well, at least the better shops), and so on.
If you really like espresso style coffee, but don't want to go all the way to make sure it is done correctly, then Nespresso and other pod systems or the bean-to-cup autos are the way to go. I personally don't think they make coffee that is how espresso should be, at least I have yet to taste such a full-auto. But for many they are just right; no strong flavors that either offend or excite, comes out exactly the same each and every time, has "crema", is in the espresso volume roughly, easy as push button.
Having to choose between the two, I would personally go with Nespresso myself as I'm too lazy to clean full-autos and frankly I trust the industrial grinders and machinery Nestlè has more than I do what is in a full-auto machine.
But to get good coffee that is more dense than drip / pour over coffee, and that is easy to prepare, I would actually just get a moka pot of some sort. Perhaps the Bialetti Brikka.
Just a few musings since I don't think there is a correct answer here.
Osku
In the UK it's really easy to better what we get offered in the shops. My experience of Italy is that it is also the case. (Milan and Naples). The Original poster is in Slovenia and my experience of coffee there was more positive, probably because they don't like such dark roasts.ojt wrote:In my opinion it is hard to easily replicate the shop quality espresso at home. It requires fussing about things like storing the beans so they don't go stale (freezing in single doses is your friend here, especially for darker roasts), coffee puck prep, making sure you don't get stale grounds from the grinder (purging, single dosing, weighing), controlling your water quality, making sure brew temperatures are correct, finding fresh enough beans, and so on and so forth..
Depends. I mean, I do agree in the sense that it was and is quite easy for me too. But it may not be for many. Let me try and explain, and please do note what I said about this forum in my previous comment:
1. I am the type of person that gets fairly deep into the nerdy side of any which hobby / activity I start. In espresso and coffee in general this means I read a lot and practice a lot until I get what I think is good or at least adequate. I like to think my base standard is quite high. I also think you might be similar, also with loads of experience. Right or wrong?
2. My taste preference is for bright, clean and acidic flavours, always has been, and while I do also enjoy (and have enjoyed before my more serious involvement in this hobby) the more "traditional" italian style coffee for me getting a well extracted light or light-medium roasted coffee is already better than 99.9% of what's an offer here in Italy.
3. If my taste preference was for more traditional italian coffee - as I think is the case with the OP - then it would be a little bit more difficult. Most of the coffee here is quite bitter. People add sugar, then it tastes good. Usually they also add milk, which also adds taste. If this is the baseline standard, then I think 80% or more of the cafès here do a pretty good job. I don't enjoy it, but seemingly the overwhelming majority of people do enjoy it.
4. Making espresso well at home requires you know how to select your gear, and learn to use it correctly, taking into account your taste preferences. You also have to take into account the beans, storing the beans, water quality, and all the rest. All this faffing and nerding about, IMHO, seems to be the base issue here for the OP and fam.
Point being, I was trying to put myself in a different set of boots here, and look at the whole hobby from the POV of someone who actually likes and prefers the true traditional italian espresso, and isn't really into going to great lengths of trouble to get that kind of espresso done at home, isn't really into nerdery in general. Thus home espresso isn't really a thing in italy. I mean, they call moka pot coffee "espresso" here sometimes.
Me? I definitely make better espresso than the vast majority of coffee shops in this country. But I only make it for myself and the family, and a few occasional brave quests. Actually I think I usually make better espresso than most specialty coffee shops I've been to.
Anyway, I hope I explained my point. This is why I would recommend Nespresso, or a moka pot, or some other stove-top coffee maker
I am asssuming all of the above.
1. I am the type of person that gets fairly deep into the nerdy side of any which hobby / activity I start. In espresso and coffee in general this means I read a lot and practice a lot until I get what I think is good or at least adequate. I like to think my base standard is quite high. I also think you might be similar, also with loads of experience. Right or wrong?
2. My taste preference is for bright, clean and acidic flavours, always has been, and while I do also enjoy (and have enjoyed before my more serious involvement in this hobby) the more "traditional" italian style coffee for me getting a well extracted light or light-medium roasted coffee is already better than 99.9% of what's an offer here in Italy.
3. If my taste preference was for more traditional italian coffee - as I think is the case with the OP - then it would be a little bit more difficult. Most of the coffee here is quite bitter. People add sugar, then it tastes good. Usually they also add milk, which also adds taste. If this is the baseline standard, then I think 80% or more of the cafès here do a pretty good job. I don't enjoy it, but seemingly the overwhelming majority of people do enjoy it.
4. Making espresso well at home requires you know how to select your gear, and learn to use it correctly, taking into account your taste preferences. You also have to take into account the beans, storing the beans, water quality, and all the rest. All this faffing and nerding about, IMHO, seems to be the base issue here for the OP and fam.
Point being, I was trying to put myself in a different set of boots here, and look at the whole hobby from the POV of someone who actually likes and prefers the true traditional italian espresso, and isn't really into going to great lengths of trouble to get that kind of espresso done at home, isn't really into nerdery in general. Thus home espresso isn't really a thing in italy. I mean, they call moka pot coffee "espresso" here sometimes.
Me? I definitely make better espresso than the vast majority of coffee shops in this country. But I only make it for myself and the family, and a few occasional brave quests. Actually I think I usually make better espresso than most specialty coffee shops I've been to.
Anyway, I hope I explained my point. This is why I would recommend Nespresso, or a moka pot, or some other stove-top coffee maker

Osku
- espressotime
Get the little red machine.Makes amazing espresso.Ponte Vecchio.Gargamel40 wrote:Our home coffee journey went from Turkish style coffee to pods (Dolce Gusto), to basic automatic bean to cup machine to full blown semi automatic espresso machine with separate grinder. All this time, we were looking for really good espresso, long espresso, americano and sometimes cappuccino. I'm not sure we ever really got a really good espresso. We changed beans, we learned, we tried but there was always something off. Or if it was right one day, it wasn't any more the next. Another problem are family members who simply don't learn the technics, hate the scale and their coffee is even worse. We also don't drink a lot of coffee, so beans get old quickly.
All in all, we have enough and want to go back to easier, constant ways. I don't have a problem with milk, i can buy a separate machine just for milk frothing and it will make me great froth any time. I won't use powder milk in pods, etc.
But good enough espresso? Where to go for that? Nespresso machine and pods? There is incredible selection of pods, i read for italian style espresso, Cellini pods are way to go. Caffitaly machines and pods?
Or back to bean to coffee machines where you need to deal with beans again?
There is a reason being a Barista is a profession. There is a lot that goes into a good cup of coffee. I think something you may run into is that even though you say your coffee is only good every now and then or is inconsistent, the few good cups you've had have likely spoiled you on the cheapo machines. It sounds like something like a Jura could work well for your family. It isn't true espresso but they taste as good as most random cafes (in my area at least.) Before buying you may want to give them a test drive so you know what to expect. I know the Crate and Barrel close to me lets folks try Nespresso pods for free so you may have something similar in your area. They have their own taste. It was funny seeing Hoffman go through their line up and most tasted like grain and cereal.
Good points. We don't like acidic coffee. Classic Italian is a way to go here.
We tried Nespresso today, two different pods. I was ok with it, wife not so much. She said it was watery, there was no full body and velvety feeling in mouth.
It's true, there wasn't but that's probably the same with any automatic or pod system there is?
We tried Nespresso today, two different pods. I was ok with it, wife not so much. She said it was watery, there was no full body and velvety feeling in mouth.
It's true, there wasn't but that's probably the same with any automatic or pod system there is?
- Jeff
- Team HB
Pretty much, yes. The pod and bean-to-cup "espresso" machines make strong coffee, but not something that I'd associate with espresso, especially classic, Italian espresso.
A moka pot can make better strong coffee with a reasonable amount of care. Dosing isn't as sensitive as for an espresso machine and the grind tends to be reasonably consistent over time.
It's been a while since I've read/watched techniques. I'd want to confirm, but using near-boiling water to fill and pulling the pot from the heat stick in my head as some of the modern approaches to good results from the moka pot. A moka pot also would let you change coffees to better match your flavor preferences.
A moka pot can make better strong coffee with a reasonable amount of care. Dosing isn't as sensitive as for an espresso machine and the grind tends to be reasonably consistent over time.
It's been a while since I've read/watched techniques. I'd want to confirm, but using near-boiling water to fill and pulling the pot from the heat stick in my head as some of the modern approaches to good results from the moka pot. A moka pot also would let you change coffees to better match your flavor preferences.
- Moka 1 Cup
If you have Kimbo coffee in Slovenia they make pods for Nespresso. They have a couple of blends with a decent amount of body. Napoli and ... I don't remember, the gold ones which I think I liked more, Roma maybe.
Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.
Thank you, always worth to check. I read best Italian pods are by Cellini also.
I wonder if the new Venturo Nespresso machine makes different, more full body shots? But there is very little pods to choose from.
I wonder if the new Venturo Nespresso machine makes different, more full body shots? But there is very little pods to choose from.