Upgrading: La Marzocco Linea Mini vs. Victoria Arduino Prima - Page 5

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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MTN Gert

#41: Post by MTN Gert »

The E1P does not come with a scheduled maintenance list. I believe that LM is a little disingenuous with their customers on this topic. As long as you are using the correct water and are backflushing regularly the only maintenance that should be needed is a group gasket and maybe a shower screen. I don't see a benefit to premature replacement of these items either in a monthly schedule. My silicone group gaskets have not worn out and the IMS shower screens I use looks great even a year later. I am assuming this will be the case for the eagle one too. Maybe someone else can chime in and suggest why "preventative maintenance " on LM machines is a benefit over replacing as needed with proper day to day care
"Stop it....it's naughty and wrong" -James Hoffmann

amrlskr

#42: Post by amrlskr »

I don't think that the Eagle One Prima has a different pre-infusion profile than other machines in the Victoria Arduino family. Even without pump-on/pump-off preinfusion settings, it should already be able to produce great drinks from light-roasted beans. I know that the Black Eagle does when paired to a high-end grinder.

I have no experience with La Marzocco machines, but I wouldn't think twice before purchasing the Eagle One Prima. For the aesthetics, the user experience (programmable dose, shot timer, auto-purge), and the architecture (small brew boiler with a saturated, temperature-controlled group head).

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Transporter
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#43: Post by Transporter »

MTN Gert wrote:The E1P does not come with a scheduled maintenance list. I believe that LM is a little disingenuous with their customers on this topic. As long as you are using the correct water and are backflushing regularly the only maintenance that should be needed is a group gasket and maybe a shower screen. I don't see a benefit to premature replacement of these items either in a monthly schedule. My silicone group gaskets have not worn out and the IMS shower screens I use looks great even a year later. I am assuming this will be the case for the eagle one too. Maybe someone else can chime in and suggest why "preventative maintenance " on LM machines is a benefit over replacing as needed with proper day to day care
Hi MTM Gert,

Where did you purchase your unit? I am considering getting a tank unit for my office since space is a bit more limited. I agree that replacing some of these parts seemed pointless when I had a GS3, but I think their prospective is to identify possible consumable that needs to be replaced on average and each machine will have a variation in maintenance based on water and use.

Thanks,

pcofftenyo

#44: Post by pcofftenyo »

MTN Gert wrote:The E1P does not come with a scheduled maintenance list. I believe that LM is a little disingenuous with their customers on this topic. As long as you are using the correct water and are backflushing regularly the only maintenance that should be needed is a group gasket and maybe a shower screen. I don't see a benefit to premature replacement of these items either in a monthly schedule. My silicone group gaskets have not worn out and the IMS shower screens I use looks great even a year later. I am assuming this will be the case for the eagle one too. Maybe someone else can chime in and suggest why "preventative maintenance " on LM machines is a benefit over replacing as needed with proper day to day care
I can foresee some possible reasons for that replacement interval. Ever seen a machine get used in a restaurant, bar, or even coffeeshop where attention to detail is lacking? You know, the snickerdoodle shop? Fancy restaurant where the machine is left on at the bar from lunch to close? Its easy to scratch the shower screen when taking the screw out so that addresses that. Inferior between-shot PF wipedown or banging the PF on a knockbox can gouge the top of the PF in turn gouging the gasket, requiring replacement. Non-silicone gasket lose elasticity.

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baldheadracing
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#45: Post by baldheadracing »

amrlskr wrote:... I have no experience with La Marzocco machines, but I wouldn't think twice before purchasing the Eagle One Prima. For the aesthetics, the user experience (programmable dose, shot timer, auto-purge), and the architecture (small brew boiler with a saturated, temperature-controlled group head).
Assuming that they are using the same brew group as the commercial multi-group Eagles, then the Eagle One Prima's group is not saturated. While the brew boiler is inside the group casting, the group's bell is offset from the brew boiler.

<if needed, then please see multiple other threads for "what is a saturated brew group" :wink: >
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

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MTN Gert

#46: Post by MTN Gert » replying to baldheadracing »

Although you are correct that the group is not saturated I wanted to clarify that it's a T3 system meaning that water passes by the steam boiler to pick up heat, the water then is heated further to ~180° in the micro brew boiler but the final water temp is reached by the massive heated group head that makes shot to shot costistancy highly accurate and allows the brew boiler to be so small and efficient

I think the jury is out on if a saturated group or a T3 system is superior but I imagine there are pros and cons to both but both work great!
"Stop it....it's naughty and wrong" -James Hoffmann

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baldheadracing
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#47: Post by baldheadracing » replying to MTN Gert »

My understanding is the Prima One does not use T3 (triple boiler: service(steam) boiler, HX into brew boiler, and then grouphead mini-boiler); it uses NEO with a service boiler and HX into the group with its mini-boiler. The multi-group Eagles do tout T3, but the T3 term doesn't seem to appear in any Prima One promotional material/videos. Victoria Arduino's previous high-end home machine, the Theresia, was T3 - and I loved the Theresia, although I will never have the space for such a stunning design.

Regardless, one technology or another doesn't imply superior taste or performance; it is all in the execution. Nuova Simonelli knows what they are doing 8).
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

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Transporter
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#48: Post by Transporter » replying to baldheadracing »

Hi

The question is, how does the Prima One compare to the GS3AV with its more considerable steam and brew boilers? If you look at how the Eagle one is positioned into the product line against the black eagle should indicate the market they are trying to attract. I like the machine's aesthetics, but I am not clear on how it stacks up the La Marzocco products.

Thanks

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MTN Gert

#49: Post by MTN Gert » replying to Transporter »

I mean no offense with my upcoming statement.

The questions I keep getting about the E1P vs blank remind me of when we were kids asking adults which car is best or fastest. There are so many factors to compare and contrast it would take pages and pages of text and still not give a perfect picture to someone who has not used it.

What I could use is questions that are a little more directed to the intended use. Commercial, home, office, catering etc and how many drinks back to back are planned. My machine intended for home use, espresso tastings of my new coffee roasts and some parties, I may not be able to give insight on which one is better for other purposes

I like the GS3 and I think the E1P makes easily as good of or better espresso (to many factors to say across the board definitively) I think the E1P makes better microfoam with dryer steam (both make some of the best steamed milk for a machine that fits in the home). Steam tips are different and it's possible the GS3 steams milk slightly faster but I have not used a stopwatch to figure it out. The E1P recovers faster but pressure dips faster too. I have yet to get the E1P to dip below 1.5 bar while steaming. Internal build quality would be hard to pick a winner between brands, both are excellent. I think bottom line is they both use a similar amount of energy to make espresso drinks but store energy in different ways. What else can I say? Both machines are beyond great! If you are after a high volume commercial machine I believe both will disappoint you.
"Stop it....it's naughty and wrong" -James Hoffmann

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baldheadracing
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#50: Post by baldheadracing »

Transporter wrote: The question is, how does the Prima One compare to the GS3AV with its more considerable steam and brew boilers? If you look at how the Eagle one is positioned into the product line against the black eagle should indicate the market they are trying to attract. I like the machine's aesthetics, but I am not clear on how it stacks up the La Marzocco products.
The GS/3 AV is priced close to 20% higher ... I'm not saying that you get what you pay for, but the two aren't directly competing. List prices:
  • Linea Mini: $5400
  • Prima One: $5990
  • GS/3 AV: $7100
As for boiler size, I don't think that brew boiler is a big issue in these machines as they all feed the brew boiler through an HX in the steam boiler (IIRC). The GS/3 has a saturated group so the boiler has to be bigger (more or less).

Steam boiler - I'm not up on all this new technology; all I know is steam is not a concern at all once you get to a 5+ litre boiler (at 110v 15 amp) like a Nuova Simonelli Appia or an Elektra T1. However, that's a lot of water to get up to steam in a home application. Myself, I can't make milk drinks fast enough to outpace my 800 watt Elektra home machines (30sec steam, one minute recovery).
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann