Hello Friends!

I hope all of you are well in these scary days!

I have been diagnosed with a severe case of Upgraditis and I need as much advice as possible please and please note that English is a second language to me, so, my apologies in advance.

Planned Date of Purchase: 29-May-2020
Budget: Although it is painful, I would say my max is $4000 (of course the lower the better lol).

My first purchase was the Oscar II (Sirai+OPV) and I have been using it for it for the past 2.5yrs now without any fails except for the power switch, which was cheap and very easy to change. It is a very sturdy machine but has its limitations. Hence, I feel I need to upgrade. Unfortunately, I do not have much options where I live. So, I will be buying the machine online like I did with my Oscar and since I need 220v/60hz, it will be probably from UK or Italy (Coffee Italia, Bella Barista, Or Espresso Coffee Shop since I do not know any other websites and Elektros do not carry machines now).
Here's what I am looking for in a machine:

- Durability and build quality as since I will be buying online, I do not want to go through the headache of doing maintenance sooner than later as I do not have much experience in servicing machines internals.
- PID with best thermo-stability possible.
- Volumatric dosing is a HUUGE plus. However, it seems not much options out there, mostly e61s. So, in order to have more options, I would say this not a mandatory feature.
- I prefer (not mandatory) stainless steel boilers over copper to minimize corrosion and scale build up, although I use bottled water (Cal and Mag PPM is 10 to 12).
- Insulated boilers.
- Easy to drain the boilers (I like how the ALEX DUETTO IV PLUS have do it, they put a drainage valve under each machine and accessible from the outside).
- Easy access to the heating elements
- Rotary Pump adjustable from the front or side. Having the ability to user reservoir and plumb-in options are nice but not mandatory.
- Powerful steam (at least as powerful as the Oscar2).
- Although not mandatory, Pressure profiling seems like a plus to me and future proof and should satisfy my needs for a very long time.
- No lever machines they are very interesting but I've decided they are not my thing.
- Don't want Decent machines because of several reasons, lead time is just too much, I don't like the looks, pump sound, plus it is too expensive for a machine that doesn't seem expensive (All of that are subjective and reflect my personal point of view obviously, but think about the heft and if you open and see the internals of the GS/3 vs Decent. I don't know how to explain it, but there you go lol)
Since I have done a lot of research and there are other factors I might have not mentioned such as lead time, availability..etc my list is all over the place. Hence, your expertise and insight is much appreciated:

-Linea Mini due to it's reliability, resell value, impressive thermostability, stainless steel boilers, very powerful & virtually limitless steam for home setting, and the fact that I got a very decent offer on the Linea Mini at total of less than $4000. Only thing that annoys me is no volumetric dosing and PID screen on the machine itself, though I think the one I was offered is connectable to their new Android App.

-Cram One - Dual Boiler PID R LFPP WT/WC: What I like about this is the volume pressure profiling, USB, the drain system and all the bills and whistles for almost $2000 cheaper than Linea Mini. What I don't like: Copper Boilers and no safety valve and just a regular vacuum breaker, which means blow steam and water around the inside and not into the drip tray. Here's my source : https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpres ... em-one-2b/

-Vesuvius Dual Boiler Pressure Profiling: with stainless steel piping it would cost a lost the same as Linea Mini. I do not know how accessible for maintenance, how laid out inside this machine and how easy it is to drain the boiler. Also, I read a lot of complains on the it as an example, please read the comment under this video by the user Ryan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2aG_gVll5g

-La Spiziale Dream: a dedicated forum to the Vivaldi, volumetric dosing, very good thermo-stability, good recovery time (especially since I would have 220v), big and powerful steam boiler, PID, ability to switch off the steam boiler, timer, half the price of Linea Mini..etc. What worries me is the bad experiences some faced with it and the Mini Vivaldi, also the 53mm annoys me as not much accessories compared to the 58mm, cannot control the perinfusion time, rotary pump only work while plumbed, not easy to access internals, copper boilers (?), no idea how easy to drain it and service the machine.

-ALEX DUETTO IV PLUS (I wonder if I can install the ECM Flow Paddle on it): same price range as the Dream (may even be less if I ask for a discount), build quality, drain is accessible from outside, it's said it is easy to access internals and easy to change heat element, pump pressure adjustment from front. What I don't like, copper boilers (though T.E.A), and weak steam
I know someone would say why not include Profitec 700, too much bad things on it in this forum (example, E1 issue). Plus, they are out of stock everywhere.

My apologies for the long post! But I hope this should reflect what I have in mind

Thank you in advance!

Hello?

Anybody there?

I don't think you could go wrong with a Linea Mini. Before I got to the options part of your post, I was thinking Linea Mini, but thought it would be a stretch budget wise. If you can get one for within your budget I would go for it.

I don't have a LMLM, but have used one and it would likely be my next machine-unless I really succumbed to the upgraditis and went straight to my end game machine: Slayer or Kees van def Westen.

Nahal wrote:Hello Friends!

I hope all of you are well in these scary days!

I have been diagnosed with a severe case of Upgraditis and I need as much advice as possible please and please note that English is a second language to me, so, my apologies in advance.

Planned Date of Purchase: 29-May-2020
Budget: Although it is painful, I would say my max is $4000 (of course the lower the better lol).

My first purchase was the Oscar II (Sirai+OPV) and I have been using it for it for the past 2.5yrs now without any fails except for the power switch, which was cheap and very easy to change. It is a very sturdy machine but has its limitations. Hence, I feel I need to upgrade. Unfortunately, I do not have much options where I live. So, I will be buying the machine online like I did with my Oscar and since I need 220v/60hz, it will be probably from UK or Italy (Coffee Italia, Bella Barista, Or Espresso Coffee Shop since I do not know any other websites and Elektros do not carry machines now).
Here's what I am looking for in a machine:

- Durability and build quality as since I will be buying online, I do not want to go through the headache of doing maintenance sooner than later as I do not have much experience in servicing machines internals.
- PID with best thermo-stability possible.
- Volumatric dosing is a HUUGE plus. However, it seems not much options out there, mostly e61s. So, in order to have more options, I would say this not a mandatory feature.
- I prefer (not mandatory) stainless steel boilers over copper to minimize corrosion and scale build up, although I use bottled water (Cal and Mag PPM is 10 to 12).
- Insulated boilers.
- Easy to drain the boilers (I like how the ALEX DUETTO IV PLUS have do it, they put a drainage valve under each machine and accessible from the outside).
- Easy access to the heating elements
- Rotary Pump adjustable from the front or side. Having the ability to user reservoir and plumb-in options are nice but not mandatory.
- Powerful steam (at least as powerful as the Oscar2).
- Although not mandatory, Pressure profiling seems like a plus to me and future proof and should satisfy my needs for a very long time.
- No lever machines they are very interesting but I've decided they are not my thing.
- Don't want Decent machines because of several reasons, lead time is just too much, I don't like the looks, pump sound, plus it is too expensive for a machine that doesn't seem expensive (All of that are subjective and reflect my personal point of view obviously, but think about the heft and if you open and see the internals of the GS/3 vs Decent. I don't know how to explain it, but there you go lol)
Since I have done a lot of research and there are other factors I might have not mentioned such as lead time, availability..etc my list is all over the place. Hence, your expertise and insight is much appreciated:

-Linea Mini due to it's reliability, resell value, impressive thermostability, stainless steel boilers, very powerful & virtually limitless steam for home setting, and the fact that I got a very decent offer on the Linea Mini at total of less than $4000. Only thing that annoys me is no volumetric dosing and PID screen on the machine itself, though I think the one I was offered is connectable to their new Android App.

-Cram One - Dual Boiler PID R LFPP WT/WC: What I like about this is the volume pressure profiling, USB, the drain system and all the bills and whistles for almost $2000 cheaper than Linea Mini. What I don't like: Copper Boilers and no safety valve and just a regular vacuum breaker, which means blow steam and water around the inside and not into the drip tray. Here's my source : https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpres ... em-one-2b/

-Vesuvius Dual Boiler Pressure Profiling: with stainless steel piping it would cost a lost the same as Linea Mini. I do not know how accessible for maintenance, how laid out inside this machine and how easy it is to drain the boiler. Also, I read a lot of complains on the it as an example, please read the comment under this video by the user Ryan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2aG_gVll5g

-La Spiziale Dream: a dedicated forum to the Vivaldi, volumetric dosing, very good thermo-stability, good recovery time (especially since I would have 220v), big and powerful steam boiler, PID, ability to switch off the steam boiler, timer, half the price of Linea Mini..etc. What worries me is the bad experiences some faced with it and the Mini Vivaldi, also the 53mm annoys me as not much accessories compared to the 58mm, cannot control the perinfusion time, rotary pump only work while plumbed, not easy to access internals, copper boilers (?), no idea how easy to drain it and service the machine.

-ALEX DUETTO IV PLUS (I wonder if I can install the ECM Flow Paddle on it): same price range as the Dream (may even be less if I ask for a discount), build quality, drain is accessible from outside, it's said it is easy to access internals and easy to change heat element, pump pressure adjustment from front. What I don't like, copper boilers (though T.E.A), and weak steam
I know someone would say why not include Profitec 700, too much bad things on it in this forum (example, E1 issue). Plus, they are out of stock everywhere.

My apologies for the long post! But I hope this should reflect what I have in mind

Thank you in advance!

Pull the trigger on the lineamini. The new models have the board where in you can connect your phone and adjust temp from there. The volumetric function is great to have but take note that it is +- 2-4ml and never consistent on my gs3 so I dont use it as often as I want. Ill be using my machine for events later on so I can see myself using volumetric dosing. Also the steam power of the mini is no joke. Some of my friends have to dial down the steam pressure just so they can texture milk properly. You said it yourself that resale value is good so if you are not happy(which I doubt will happen) just sell it ;p

Double post

My current machine is a Lelit Bianca and the previous one (still mine but I am sending it to another country) is NS Musica. I have considered the LMLM before purchasing Bianca, however for your need, I would suggest LMLM especially if you can get it in 4000USD price.

Good luck.

jpsm wrote: Pull the trigger on the lineamini. The new models have the board where in you can connect your phone and adjust temp from there. The volumetric function is great to have but take note that it is +- 2-4ml and never consistent on my gs3 so I dont use it as often as I want. Ill be using my machine for events later on so I can see myself using volumetric dosing. Also the steam power of the mini is no joke. Some of my friends have to dial down the steam pressure just so they can texture milk properly. You said it yourself that resale value is good so if you are not happy(which I doubt will happen) just sell it ;p

I am surprised the volumetric isn't accurate on the GS3 lol.
I read here in order to have a better performing I need to sort of fine tune it by changing the flow restrictor to 0.6mm and maybe even change the preasure to 6bars, which seems a pain since I would need a scace...sounds like a lot of work for a machine with that price tag .

Wife and I are more of a short lattes drinkers than espresso or Americanos... say 90% of the time we would drink Latte macchiato and Cortados and the rest just Americanos or Lungos. We are into single origins light and medium-light roasts, we do medium roasts as well but not into classic italian roast or dark roast. will we be missing a lot if we skip on the pressure profiling thing?

Those are the nerds talking( ) I am pretty sure out of the box you will be fine! Ok tbh +- 2-4ml is really accurate. I just want mine spot on all the time I guess .

Nah, The whole pressure profiling thing is another rabbit hole. I tried spro on other machines that does that and I cant really say the diff is night and day. Imo it all comes down to you being dialed in. Just get a grinder that is capable of going with your machine so you can get the most out of your mini.

Awesome! I am even starting to consider the GS/3 due to it's grouphead "true" stauration, but this thing needs financing, which I'm really tempted to consider since it will immune me from any Upgraditis re-infection for life lol

Anyhow, I spoke to a friend of mine about my plans to to upgrade to the LMLM this week since they've agreed to change the flow restrictor..to my surprise he upgraded his set-up a couple of month ago with a Chinese Made machine! When he said Chinese Made, I was like seriously bruh! PASS!. But then he sent me a YouTube vid that showed it in action and showed the internals (attached below)! The one he has is with stainless steel boilers.. Though the paddle is only on/off function, the machine doesn't look that bad especially with that sexy looking grouphead that is PID controlled as well, and Procon pump with pressure being adjustable from outside! I wish I can visit him to open up the machine myself and also test it's thermostability and claims, which he isn't interested in doing...He is, literally, 2000 miles away!

It seems this machine could compete with the LMLM but no way with the GS/3 (?), at least theoretically, for a fraction of the cost! the LMLM quote I got is $4133 shipped and that chinese machine, according to him, is only $1200 to $1500 shipped and the one with bigger boiler that "looks" like GS3 is just a couple of hundreds more!


Did some googling to see the specs and it seems it is on Aliexpress with marked up prices, appearently they do that so they could give the customers "good discounts" when you ask for one lol. 2l steam boiler, .75l brew boiler, Procon Rotary pump, PID controling boiler and grouphead, safety... basically all the bills and whistles of a good double boiler machine!

I actually just went through the decision between the Linea Mini and GS3. I originally ordered a Linea Mini, which had a 6-8 week backorder. A couple weeks later, after thinking about it some more, I changed my order to the GS3. With the recent price increase of the Linea Mini, the price difference isn't as big as it used to be. A couple reasons I changed my mind were the volumetrics, which even if it isn't 100% accurate, will likely be more accurate for my wife when she uses the machine- she currently doesn't pull her shots using any measurable method. My family also makes a lot of milk drinks and the double-walled stainless no-burn wand, which while it may be more a luxury than a necessity, is included on the GS3, but is a $700 option on the Linea Mini. Also the plumb kit is included with the GS3, if you were planning on doing that, where it is a $100 option on the Linea Mini. Lastly, I felt the aesthetics of the GS3 matched better with the rest of my setup.