To E61 or not to E61 - Page 4

#31: Post by **cskorton** » May 31st, 2021, 5:58 pm

dragulievic wrote:As a matter of fact I came across with a 2y old used Classika II PID. Considering it's in excellent condition only with the signs of normal usage, what is a fair price for this machine? Here in my region the lowest price for a brand new Classika is 1250EUR/1530USD
Thanks!

I typically expect a 20-25% discount from new when it comes to good quality used equipment. There will always be exceptions of course.

June 19th, 2021, 3:36 pm

Hi guys,

I have not pulled the trigger yet..
Today I came across with a vintage VBM Domobar, the most basic model. The machine seems to be in excellent condition for it's age, almost new, I think it must be around 10-15 years old.
The only downside is that there are no pressure gauges on the front panel, only the switch button and two buttons for the steam wand and something else.
The price is ~540USD/460EUR, do you think it's a good deal or should I avoid it for the lack of a pressure gauge? How would I know if there was something wrong with the pressure? Do you think the pressure is adjustable if needed?

Thanks!

#33: Post by **Mikkio** » June 25th, 2021, 7:55 pm

Hi dragulievic

I would not buy it. How are you going to tune your temperature? You can add a pressure gauge on the grouphead for the extraction pressure, but the temperature?

I had 5 e61 and the VBM was giving me the best espresso of all the vibration pumps, despite was a single boiler.. but I had the pressure gauge...

#34: Post by **luisguilherme** » June 25th, 2021, 9:45 pm

Isn't it worth saving a bit more and getting a MaraX? It's a E61, but with great temperature stability, especially for the price.

June 25th, 2021, 10:37 pm

I just realized that none of my espresso machines have brew pressure gauges. Somehow I've survived

.

My Elektra Micro Casa Semiautomatica doesn't even have an over-pressure valve. It's an HX (no thermosyphon). No thermometer either, and I've never put the Scace on it ... yet somehow thirty-year-old technology makes pretty good espresso. Turn it on, wait about 20 minutes for darker roasts, about 35 minutes for lighter roasts, pull two shots, clean up, and turn the machine off. ( /elektra-se ... eview.html )

As for used machines, it is hard to know what condition the machine is in, so it is hard to say if the Domobar is a good deal or not. I've had a used machine - "in working order" - swallow up a few hundred dollars in parts and needing to be taken apart multiple times. I've had used machines that haven't needed anything for years. I have a $20 machine that I fixed with a hammer (ice damage) and vinegar.

I guess my point is that older machines may require you to be a mechanic. Are you comfortable with that? If not, then I'd stick to a new, or very new, machine.

Good luck!

#36: Post by **Mikkio** » June 26th, 2021, 1:34 am

I fully agree with baldheadracing: I bought all my machines used, some never needed anything else than normal maintenance for years, some needed more in spare parts than their original price.
Especially if you buy it online, it is very risky.
I remain convinced that a E61 without pressure gauge at 450euros is not worth the risk. If you can open the machine and try it, then is different.

#37: Post by **PeetsFan** » June 27th, 2021, 7:17 am

Randy G. wrote:I do have a soft spot in my heart for the E61 group. I had two VBM machines for a total of about 16 or 17 years iirc. but have moved on... WAY on. But the manual E61groups are easy to maintain and make for a somewhat simplier machine.

Anyway, I may be wrong, but I believe that the VBM Inox is like the one that 1st-Line sells as "The Original" in that is is a single boiler, dual use (SBDU) machine. That means that if you like milk drinks then you have to flip a switch, wait for the boiler to heat up to steaming temperature, steam milk, then turn off the steam switch and cool and fill the boiler by bleeding water through the group before brewing again. The next step up is to a "Heat Exchanger" (HX) machine. These are generally better suited for dual use (straight espresso and milk drinks). The Inox, if you are just using it for espresso only, would be a nice machine if the E61 group is what you want. But also be aware that a quality grinder is a must, and as you may have already read on this forum, more important than the espresso machine. And a PID is not necessary in those machines. The Inox, much like most other SBDU does not have an adjustment for brew temperature. But flushing the E61 group (turning on the brew function by lifting the lever for a chosen amount of time before brewing) can effect and 'control' brew temperature.

As far as the other machines, I have no useful knowledge about them, but others here will be able to assist you in comparisons about those.

Except, if he brews only espresso and almost never steams milk, a Heat Exchange machine may be a step down, not a step up, from a SBDU. Although, I don't know if they make an E61 SBDU with PID

#38: Post by **PIXIllate** » June 27th, 2021, 8:15 am

Ecm Classika

#39: Post by **Jeff** » June 27th, 2021, 11:03 am

PeetsFan wrote:I don't know if they make an E61 SBDU with PID

Quick Mill Alexia Evo and Carola Evo as well.

#40: Post by **Espressoman007** » June 27th, 2021, 4:52 pm

If there was an espresso machine on the market with a pump, and for espresso only, but a higher class machine, with no steaming, no water pipe, made only to produce the best possible espresso, I would be on it instantly!

Good luck choosing machine!

Cheers!