Tired of inconsistency. Need help picking espresso machine, budget $2-3K

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Pro_123
Posts: 2
Joined: 3 years ago

#1: Post by Pro_123 »

Hello! I need help descending the rabbit hole (obligatory English is not my first language). Like many on this sub, I have an obsession in researching all about a product before a purchase to make sure I make the right choice. I'm currently a Bambino Plus + Specialita user for the past 2 years, its a great start up kit and I learned a lot with it! however, I want to improve my game. More specifically, I am bothered by the inconsistencies of my shots and how hard it is to get the right temperature. I am looking for my next machine and that's where I need help, I would like ideas or research results from others that went down this path.

What I'm looking for:
  • I'm making 4 to 6 espresso shots (double) on a weekday and 8 to 10 on weekends.
  • Typically, I'm making 30% a milk drink (mostly plant base milk) and 70% espresso/americano
  • I really love the e61 group head look
  • I usually prefer darker roast as my daily bean, however I will definitely go off-road with some lighter roast
  • Budget $2-3k
  • I don't think I need a double boiler, but surprise me.
  • I value longevity a lot and I do have somewhat limited counter space.
I'm looking at:
  • The Bianca (definitely at the upper range / exceeding my budget), but I'm not sure I'll need the profiling option
  • The Rocket Mozzafiato
  • Profitec 500
  • Please provide other options!
Basically, I would like a machine that can give consistently great espresso shots with the least effort once the bean is dialed in (for my coffee before coffee brain).

Thank you!

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Jeff
Team HB
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Joined: 19 years ago

#2: Post by Jeff »

Welcome to H-B!
Pro_123 wrote:More specifically, I am bothered by the inconsistencies of my shots and how hard it is to get the right temperature.

[...]
  • I don't think I need a double boiler, but surprise me.
That is one of the biggest reasons to go with a DB, or something like the unique MaraX.

The MaraX is the only HX that I know of that doesn't need hand-holding (and a group-head thermometer, such as the EricS one) to get reasonable temperature stability.

The Bianca is better in temperature stability than the MaraX as it uses a dedicated boiler to control the E61 group temperature and doesn't have the HX in the brew circuit either (and has similar engineering quality; not all DBs are inherently better than the MaraX).

There are some marketing claims, written and in videos, about controlling the HX steam boiler temperature with a PID to get walk-up first shot stability. There are good technical reasons why this isn't really possible for more than the first shot and plenty of threads here indicating that the behavior on the first shot and the usability of the machine to get a second shot is far from the marketing materials' claims. (The MaraX has a unique design that uses feedback from the group head itself and doesn't try to control the steam boiler to a fixed temperature, as the others do).

Similar to the Bianca are the ECM Synchronika and Profitec Pro 700. The Bianca comes with a flow kit installed. It is an additional-cost item for the ECM/Profitec. I have read that the Profitec Pro 600 is a reasonable "in between" choice (though it does have a vibe pump, which may not be ideal if you want to install a flow kit and work with light ("drip") roasts later on).

With an E61 on your "must have" list, those are the ones that I'd suggest looking at first.

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MTN Gert
Posts: 345
Joined: 3 years ago

#3: Post by MTN Gert »

If you are looking for consistency I would say research the La Spaziale Vivaldi II, Dream, Vivaldi mini

They have a saturated group head unlike a E61 which makes the temp a lot more stable all the way to the coffee puck and not just stable at the boiler.

The steam is high quality and powerful

You can easily adjust temperature for different beans

They use volumetrics and once dialed in little to no adjustment will be needed, just push the single or double shot button

Price is 1800-2400 usd depending on the model and some vendors will offer discounts

I think the Bianca is cool but it worries me that Lelit hasn't figured out the overpressure issue yet. It seems to be a widespread issue but maybe it just seems common becuase of how many people are buying this machine

A DE1 is very consistent and has plenty of steaming power for the amount of milk you use. It is however top of your budget and I prefer more of a commercial Cafe machine experience at home
"Stop it....it's naughty and wrong" -James Hoffmann

Pro_123 (original poster)
Posts: 2
Joined: 3 years ago

#4: Post by Pro_123 (original poster) »

Appreciate all the answers!
Jeff, I did look at the MaraX and the price difference between the MaraX with PID (PL62T) is approx. $1k, would you say that the Bianca is significantly better?
Also, considering that the mozzafiato R is similar in prices with the Bianca, should I disregard that option? I read some complaints about built quality with Rockets, however coming from a Breville that I had to return 3 times, I find it hard to compare.

RFK250
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Joined: 4 years ago

#5: Post by RFK250 »

I researched heavily to upgrade from a Breville Duo Temp, and in the $2-3k Canadian price range the machine I landed on is the Lelit Elizabeth. However, I did not buy it. Instead, I bought the Breville Dual Boiler because it just went on sale. For the sale price, I'm willing to take the risk of being in the warranty return cycle (I'm in the midst of a warranty return on the aforementioned duo temp as we speak).

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Jeff
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Joined: 19 years ago

#6: Post by Jeff »

Pro_123 wrote:the price difference between the MaraX with PID (PL62T) is approx. $1k, would you say that the Bianca is significantly better?
There's always something better!

The question for me is, "If I'm going to spend XXX more on coffee gear, where is it going to make the most difference to my enjoyment of the process and the cup?"

If you're not expecting to "play' with lighter roasts (those that are typically suggested for "drip"), it's hard for me to argue for the Bianca. I think you'd get more out of $1,000 of great coffee, as just one other option.

However, if you see the hobby taking you in the direction of lighter-roast coffees, it might be worth considering.

If I had a MaraX at my office (and I was actually there), I'd use it. There aren't a lot of significant, functional differences between the better models within the broad classes of E61 boxes; HX, MaraX, DB, DB with flow management. Unfortunately, the MaraX is the only HX that I know of that does a good job of self-managing its temperature. There are also some models to avoid, even from otherwise reputable manufacturers, especially in the HX class. Research carefully opinions around PID-controlled HX, "no flush" machines other than the MaraX.

I can't comment meaningfully on Rocket. I'm old and jaded. It's yet another E61 HX box, like the scores that proceeded it over the past decades.

Jimjam168
Posts: 33
Joined: 3 years ago

#7: Post by Jimjam168 »

The other folks on this thread will have more meaningful and technical analysis but as a Mozzafiato owner, I can say the build quality, look, and feel of the machine has been really top notch for me. Coming from a Silvia, this has given new meaning for me to what an espresso machine should look and feel like.

The espresso has been excellent. Regarding consistency, you learn the tricks to the trade and dial in you're own routine. I've had minimal issues.
James