Time to decide: La Marzocco Linea Mini or profiling E61 - Page 3

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
BoulderMike

Postby BoulderMike » Apr 15, 2019, 2:32 pm

As to why it is a "deal breaker" - What if the seller goes out of business? Why don't other sellers carry it? Just seems more risky to purchase something that has only one seller.

As to reseller/seller vs. distributor, I meant seller. Same issue as above? Why don't others carry it? Lelit says it is their choice, but that in itself seems like a bad strategy. Anyway, I am sure 1st Line are great, and the Bianca is great, it just seems risky to me. I hope others who buy it are very happy, and I wish 1st Line great success in selling it.

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Apr 15, 2019, 3:21 pm

Am I the only thinking this is a bizarre point for a bizarre thread?

-- The E61 is a parts bin machine. If you don't like Lelit having, like 90% of all espresso manufactures, an exclusive US distributor, get a Profitech 700, or any old DB E61 with a needle valve kit.

-- The experience of using the LMLM, and the experience it requires to use it well, is so vastly different from using the Bianca, that the premise of this thread is also a bit bizarre. I can see someone wondering whether to get a Cremina or an LMLM, since despite being very different, they are both very overbuilt and very basic. I can also see someone wondering about the Cremina versus the Bianca, since both can profile. But comparability is not necessarily a transitive relation, since the basis for comparisons can change. So there really is no common basis for comparing the LMLM to the Bianca, unless I'm missing something.
Jim Schulman

BoulderMike

Postby BoulderMike » Apr 15, 2019, 3:44 pm

to another_jim:
I probably should keep my mouth shut, and I should start by saying that having read your previous comments, I have a great deal of respect for what you say and have said in the past, but I think you are a bit wrong here.

First, I apologize for getting my terminology wrong as to seller, distributor, etc. What I meant was that if I look at a Pro 700, Synchronika, and other similar E61 machines, which as you say are sort of all in a similar group or type, I can find them at numerous places like Clive, WLL, etc. When I search for Lelit, I only see 1st Line. As someone else pointed out, they bought at Total Espresso, but it shipped from 1st Line. So, the whole seller, distributor, etc. confusion is my mistake, and I apologize. But, I still think that it is strange that other E61 machines have multiple sellers that seem to be common like Clive, WLL, etc., but Lelit doesn't. I understand you don't find that of concern, and many others might not, but merely expressing my opinion is to say that I do find it of concern. That doesn't make me right, it is just my opinion, or as others have said, my bias.

As to your taking issue with comparing very different machines, I think you are incorrect. That is a common problem many of us have, deciding between different machines and different needs fulfilled by different machines. It doesn't make much sense to have a long discussion as to whether to buy a Pro 700 or a Synchronika, but it does make sense, at least to me, to be deciding between two or more very different machines. I am struggling with that at this moment. Do I buy a Pro 700 or a Synchronika for ~3K, and what are the pros and cons, or do I buy the Linea Mine for ~4.9K, and what are the pros and cons? Basically, it all machines were the same and fulfilled similar needs it would just be who has the best PR or marketing. But, those of us who aren't as knowledgeable as you are really confused and uncertain as to where the best value point is in terms of price and features as we are upgrading from something like a Silvia. I honestly don't know what is best, and I was really interested in the Bianca. But, limited availability in terms of sellers has caused me concern. I like LM due to their having a US presence. But, $4.9K is a lot for me. Not sure what to do.

Anyway, all of this is a long way from saying you may think that those of us with less knowledge and more confusion than you are bizarre to compare two very different machines, but deciding between these machines that fulfill two very different need groups is exactly the issue we are dealing with.

Again, I have the utmost respect for you and your comments, and what I write here is hopefully just to explain why the original poster wrote his post, and why others like me were interested in it.

JonF

Postby JonF » Apr 15, 2019, 4:20 pm

I went thru a similar decision recently. Actually, I understand the dilemma. Great reviews, different strengths, etc. I wanted to upgrade my plumbed in Vivaldi. Even flew to Seattle to visit La Marzocco. All machines at this level can make great espresso. I finally went with a machine that offers the ability to tweak at will.

I made the choice by deciding: Did I want a machine that offers great repeatable shots but lacks a little in flexibility, or did I want a machine that also can make great espresso but does offer easily adjusted brewing variables?

I am finding that it's a lot of fun walking up and going "hmmm, what do I want to try today?"

Shawnaks5

Postby Shawnaks5 » replying to JonF » Apr 15, 2019, 4:55 pm

What machine did you get?

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Apr 15, 2019, 5:00 pm

BoulderMike wrote:to another_jim: ...
.. What I meant was that if I look at a Pro 700, Synchronika, and other similar E61 machines, which as you say are sort of all in a similar group or type, I can find them at numerous places like Clive, WLL, etc. When I search for Lelit, I only see 1st Line ...


So what? Do you want to buy the machine three times at different places? Repair after purchase does not dependent on how many people sell or distribute a machine, only on how long parts are made for it. (If you don't want to do your own repairs, that's an entirely separate can of worms)

...As to your taking issue with comparing very different machines, I think you are incorrect. That is a common problem many of us have, deciding between different machines and different needs fulfilled by different machines.


Yes; it's by far the most important thing. But we aren't psychic; so we can't tell you what you would like. Again, the differences between the two machines are crashingly obvious; we know them; you know them. We don't know what you want; so far only you do. Neither you nor the OP have said much about what you like, your experience and commitment level.

For instance, do you prefer to refine your skill making one coffee one way until it's perfect? Or do you prefer to play with several coffees and several different brewing styles? I can't tell you that. Once you know, 5 minutes of reading the reviews will tell you which machine to buy.
Jim Schulman

User avatar
another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Apr 15, 2019, 5:01 pm

BoulderMike wrote:to another_jim: ...
.. What I meant was that if I look at a Pro 700, Synchronika, and other similar E61 machines, which as you say are sort of all in a similar group or type, I can find them at numerous places like Clive, WLL, etc. When I search for Lelit, I only see 1st Line ...


So what? Do you want to buy the machine three times at different places? Repair after purchase does not dependent on how many people sell or distribute a machine, only on how long parts are made for it. (If you don't want to do your own repairs, that's an entirely separate can of worms)

...As to your taking issue with comparing very different machines, I think you are incorrect. That is a common problem many of us have, deciding between different machines and different needs fulfilled by different machines.


Yes; it's by far the most important thing. But we aren't psychic; so we can't tell you what you would like. Again, the differences between the two machines are crashingly obvious; we know them; you know them. We don't know what you want; so far only you do. Neither you nor the OP have said much about what you like, your experience and commitment level.

For instance, do you prefer to refine your skill making one coffee one way until it's perfect? Or do you prefer to play with several coffees and several different brewing styles? I can't tell you that. Once you know, 5 minutes of reading the reviews will tell you which genre of machine to buy.
Jim Schulman

JonF

Postby JonF » Apr 15, 2019, 5:22 pm

Shawnaks5 wrote:What machine did you get?

I went with a DE1.1 Pro, but just did not want to confuse the issue any more! :wink:

Shawnaks5

Postby Shawnaks5 » replying to JonF » Apr 15, 2019, 5:26 pm

I kind of had an idea that's what you went with! I'm waiting for the next one to come out with buttons on it later this year to purchase mine.

BoulderMike

Postby BoulderMike » Apr 15, 2019, 5:30 pm

another_jim wrote:So what? Do you want to buy the machine three times at different places? Repair after purchase does not dependent on how many people sell or distribute a machine, only on how long parts are made for it. (If you don't want to do your own repairs, that's an entirely separate can of worms)



Yes; it's by far the most important thing. But we aren't psychic; so we can't tell you what you would like. Again, the differences between the two machines are crashingly obvious; we know them; you know them. We don't know what you want; so far only you do. Neither you nor the OP have said much about what you like, your experience and commitment level.

For instance, do you prefer to refine your skill making one coffee one way until it's perfect? Or do you prefer to play with several coffees and several different brewing styles? I can't tell you that. Once you know, 5 minutes of reading the reviews will tell you which machine to buy.


It is obvious I am offending you so I am going to bow out here. I thought the original poster, and speaking for myself, were looking for an unbiased discussion of pros and cons, and of the benefits of each machine. I wasn't asking you to make a decision for me, and intentionally did not want to insert my bias as to what I think matters most to me. In fact I am not sure what matters most so what I really wanted to participate in was a discussion of the machines without inserting "myself" into the discussion. You seem irritated and biased and I am rethinking my original comment. I don't think you are positively contributing to this discussion. I will now leave this thread and apologize for upsetting you.