Time to choose a grinder for espresso (I got the Versalab)

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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pizzaman383
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#1: Post by pizzaman383 »

I have used a Fiorenzato Doge 83 for five years with Mazzer Major burrs and for several years using SSP burrs. The espresso is great and consistent for the decaf classic Italian espresso beans that I use. I have tried various other types of espresso beans but I just don't like them.

I have single dosed with this grinder the entire time with the biggest change in routine switching from pour the cold-start to hot start then pouring in the beans. I am ready for an easier workflow because I brush, bump, brush, stir, pour, wdt, and tamp.

I am trying to decide whether to get a Niche, a Weber Key, or a Versalab. I want espresso that is at least as good as I get from my current grinder with the least possible prep routine.

I can buy either of these grinders and have lusted for a Versalab for a very long time. I have read many grinder threads and I am mostly convinced that I should get a versalab. My brother and son both have Niche grinders and love them.

Is the Key enough better than the Niche that I should get the Key? Is the Versalab enough better than them both that I should get the Versalab?
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Pressino
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#2: Post by Pressino »

I don't understand why you want to get a different grinder, given your report that your current grinder produces excellent results. Is it just to get a grinder that you "want" or "lust after" rather than one which will produce better than the "great and consistent" espresso you've been getting? If the former is the case, chose whichever grinder you most lust after. If the latter, and it were my grinder, I just stick with what I've got.

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pizzaman383 (original poster)
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#3: Post by pizzaman383 (original poster) »

It is the workflow improvement that I want.
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baldheadracing
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#4: Post by baldheadracing replying to pizzaman383 »

... then I'd say that the question comes down to:
- direct dosing into basket and portafilter - only the VL does this (as an option) of your three choices, and
- what is the cost of not doing WDT.
I'd say that in my limited experience, the cost of not doing WDT isn't huge with classic Italian roasts (and doses), so that leaves the VL. I don't know about decaf, though.
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mckolit
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#5: Post by mckolit »

Maybe a funnel for your portafilter? That way you can grind directly into your portafilter, one less step for the routine?

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Jeff
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#6: Post by Jeff »

Niche has the best workflow and I dosed directly into a bare basket with funnel when I had one. From what I've read and talked with previous owners, the Key does not have a good workflow. The Versalab has a certain attraction that, if you appreciate it, adds joy to the coffee-making experience.

I'd also consider an Option-O Mini if you're typically only making a couple shots at a time. It's fussier than the Niche, but significantly less expensive. I find it better than the Niche for filter coffee. It does a good job with George Howell Alchemy espresso blend and Hatch decaf at filter roast for espresso and my light-roast tastes.

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pizzaman383 (original poster)
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#7: Post by pizzaman383 (original poster) »

Here's a status update.

I visited my son and used his Niche Zero grinder and DE1 with one of my favorite coffees. I didn't like the results as much as the espresso I made at home. I used different filter baskets (the ones he had) and a different flow/temperature profile (a modified version of the Decent Londinium profile) so there were several variables at play.

I knew that I really liked my espresso and my grinder had a good part in making that so I decided to stick with my current grinder. The combination of my machine, grinder, filter baskets, coffees, and prep methods work together very well and I love the results. I certainly decided I didn't want a Niche grinder. I liked my grinder and could save money so no change needed.

Fast forward two weeks and a Versalab M4 came up used for a good price. I had just learned of a salary increase and my birthday was coming up and I caved in. Luckily, I saw the for sale post within an hour or two of it going up and I was the first responder. Woohoo!

The grinder arrived yesterday. The first two shots using the adjustment the previous owner had flowed nicely using my favorite beans and the same filter basket and dose I normally use. They tasted fairly similar to a shot made using my old grinder. Another Woohoo!

I need to experiment with prep methods and grind setting but so far so good.
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CaptPat
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#8: Post by CaptPat »

Sounds like very good news. An M4 is in my list of possible next grinders and I'm interested your experience with it.
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pizzaman383 (original poster)
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#9: Post by pizzaman383 (original poster) »

I find that for the coffee I use (decaf classic Italian roasts) at 50% humidity I need to use RDT or I get 1/2g retention and inconsistent dosing.

But the taste is very nice. A little smoother than the 83mm flat SSPs give.
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pizzaman383 (original poster)
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#10: Post by pizzaman383 (original poster) »

I made my initial few minor customizations. Pad to catch stray grinds, E61 bottomless to hold the basket while grinding (my modern commercial lever group's cafelat portafilter ears are 1-2mm too narrow so the portafilter holder doesn't hold it well), leather pads on the portafilter holder arms (to provide cushioning when I thwack to drop staticy grounds), and a bean funnel (I had beans popcorn out when I was pouring them in).
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