Three E61 espresso machines and cannot decide which to buy - Page 3
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I looked at the Vetrano 2B model, but it costs more than the Bezzera and offers less... plastic rotary knobs instead of wood levers, no wake timer, and programming temp is much more difficult. To each their own, I suppose.BaristaBoy E61 wrote:If you want the QM Vetrano you should buy it. All you have to do is feed it non-scaling water and you're OK. Besides it has a good warranty, you just need a good vendor like Chris' Coffee that will support you and talk you through any problem.
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And one more says get the Bianca. Get the Bianca. After four months with flow control, I now wonder how I ever got along without it. To be fair, I haven't tried any of the other machines on your list, so treat my advice for what it is... heavily biased. But, get the Bianca.cajunbaseball wrote:Thank you all for commenting.
I've now ruled out the 600 after the comments so I'm down to: Biancha, Profitec 700 and Quick Mill Vetrano.
Two of you have weighed in favoring the Vetrano, one of you said don't buy it!
Thanks
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I love my Vetrano. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone. And Chris' Coffee have been wonderful even though I'm in Canada.
- BaristaBoy E61
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Let me shed some light on this subject by throwing some hot water on the matter. Everyone loves their machine when it's new and spinning like a 'Top' - but 1-day you're likely to wake up to a mess of water if you own it long enough. It's not that any of the machines discussed in this thread are really bad, they aren't. It's just the nature of the beast. They will all let you know at some time during their ownership that they need to be serviced by you or someone else.
Of all the machines mentioned in this thread only the Izzo Alex Duetto IV and the Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo have Stainless Steel Frames. Personally, I would not want to own a machine that didn't have a Stainless Steel Frame because I have dealt with serious water issues and I would not like to have to deal with or own a machine with a rusting frame. For me, all Stainless Steel construction trumps touch screens, flow mushrooms and Joy Sticks.
Have a look at the pics in this thread and you decide.
Profitec Pro 700 Leak
YMMV
Of all the machines mentioned in this thread only the Izzo Alex Duetto IV and the Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo have Stainless Steel Frames. Personally, I would not want to own a machine that didn't have a Stainless Steel Frame because I have dealt with serious water issues and I would not like to have to deal with or own a machine with a rusting frame. For me, all Stainless Steel construction trumps touch screens, flow mushrooms and Joy Sticks.
Have a look at the pics in this thread and you decide.
Profitec Pro 700 Leak
YMMV
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"
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I don't believe you're correct.BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Of all the machines mentioned in this thread only the Izzo Alex Duetto IV and the Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo have Stainless Steel Frames. For me, all Stainless Steel construction trumps touch screens, flow mushrooms and Joy Sticks.
Which of the E61's don't have a stainless frame? All of them appear to be stainless, although a few, like the well-regarded ECM Synchronika, have composite portions which are equally (or more) water resilient.
Whole Latte Love has a teardown video of the Bezzera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoDRdSXV06U) and it's all stainless:
- HB
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You make a valid point, but I would be less concerned if the frame wasn't subjected to constant wear and tear plus exposure to water (e.g., the infamous La Pavoni Europiccola and Rancilio Silvia driptrays). For what it's worth, I cannot recall a stainless steel frame for commercial espresso machines I've tested (e.g., La Marzocco, La Cimbali, and La Spaziale), so apparently it's not widely acknowledged as a must-have for longevity.BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Personally, I would not want to own a machine that didn't have a Stainless Steel Frame...
Dan Kehn
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I ordered the Vetrano from Chris's. Great attentiveness to my many questions before the sale. I hope that keeps up after the sale. I plan to love the machine and hope I do.
Thank you all again for the comments.
Thank you all again for the comments.
- BaristaBoy E61
- Posts: 3538
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Regarding Dan's points, I would be less concerned with Stainless Steel frames if I were running a commercial cafe where the equipment is a depreciating asset that a portion of which would be written off every year as well as its maintenance that I wouldn't be personally doing. However in my home where I may keep a machine for a long time I wouldn't want to see or deal with rust that I believe would eventually be at the very least a nuisance factor. I've attached a pic of our machine (7yrs old), that has a Stainless Steel frame. I'm sure that when it comes time to sell, that showing a potential buyer how to switch from Reservoir to Direct Plumbed and where and how to turn on or off the alarm, that a potential buyer seeing any rust would be turned off as they would also wonder about rust and general condition where they cannot see it. This would result in sale price that would have to be lowered by perhaps several hundred dollars or no sale at all at that point.
Let me draw your attention to these links:
Your machine I believe. "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'. However, at about 13-minutes into the video he does say it's a 'Stainless Steel Fame'. So which is it? I believe the Tech Specs for now.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collecti ... so-machine
ECM Synchronika - "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collect ... so-machine
Izzo Alex Duetto IV:
"HIGHLIGHTS
We introduced Izzo to the North American consumer decades ago and they still impress us daily! Unwavering focus on quality from the stainless steel frame, gorgeous industrial stainless steel body, down to the bits that you won't see - like the stainless steel mushroom and gicleur. The Alex Duetto not only stands out on the counter of your kitchen, but you'll be just as impressed as we are daily with the build quality for decades to come."
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/i ... -duetto-iv
Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo
"TECHNICAL NOTES
PID display with shot timer
Stainless steel mushroom & gicleur valve
Stainless steel body shell
Stainless steel frame
Stainless steel boilers
E61 commercial group
No Burn, stainless steel steam and hot water arms
Rotary pump, placed vertically to prevent any motor issues
Easy access to the rotary, a tab on the right panel
Water reservoir with a low water sensor
Panels on the bottom base, access to the heaters and the boiler drains
Bottom fed BPA free water reservoir"
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/qu ... vetrano-2b
All these machine are very good machines. For myself, when considering what machine to buy I'm thinking about service factors because I'll be doing all the service and I'm also thinking about the other side of the deal, what will selling and going out of the deal look like.
We're getting too deep into the weeds. Any of these machine will keep most owners happy for quite some time with the espresso produced - as long as you have good beans, good water and a good grinder.
To cajunbaseball:
Congratulations - I'm sure you're going to love your Vetrano!
We have had great tech support from Chris' Coffee and advice in general.
The best advice I can offer is to use non-scaling water right out of the box. That will go a long way to avoid many avoidable problems.
Best of Luck & Enjoy!
PeetsFan wrote:I don't believe you're correct.
Which of the E61's don't have a stainless frame? All of them appear to be stainless, although a few, like the well-regarded ECM Synchronika, have composite portions which are equally (or more) water resilient.
Whole Latte Love has a teardown video of the Bezzera (video) and it's all stainless:
image
Let me draw your attention to these links:
Your machine I believe. "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'. However, at about 13-minutes into the video he does say it's a 'Stainless Steel Fame'. So which is it? I believe the Tech Specs for now.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collecti ... so-machine
ECM Synchronika - "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collect ... so-machine
Izzo Alex Duetto IV:
"HIGHLIGHTS
We introduced Izzo to the North American consumer decades ago and they still impress us daily! Unwavering focus on quality from the stainless steel frame, gorgeous industrial stainless steel body, down to the bits that you won't see - like the stainless steel mushroom and gicleur. The Alex Duetto not only stands out on the counter of your kitchen, but you'll be just as impressed as we are daily with the build quality for decades to come."
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/i ... -duetto-iv
Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo
"TECHNICAL NOTES
PID display with shot timer
Stainless steel mushroom & gicleur valve
Stainless steel body shell
Stainless steel frame
Stainless steel boilers
E61 commercial group
No Burn, stainless steel steam and hot water arms
Rotary pump, placed vertically to prevent any motor issues
Easy access to the rotary, a tab on the right panel
Water reservoir with a low water sensor
Panels on the bottom base, access to the heaters and the boiler drains
Bottom fed BPA free water reservoir"
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/qu ... vetrano-2b
All these machine are very good machines. For myself, when considering what machine to buy I'm thinking about service factors because I'll be doing all the service and I'm also thinking about the other side of the deal, what will selling and going out of the deal look like.
We're getting too deep into the weeds. Any of these machine will keep most owners happy for quite some time with the espresso produced - as long as you have good beans, good water and a good grinder.
To cajunbaseball:
Congratulations - I'm sure you're going to love your Vetrano!
We have had great tech support from Chris' Coffee and advice in general.
The best advice I can offer is to use non-scaling water right out of the box. That will go a long way to avoid many avoidable problems.
Best of Luck & Enjoy!
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"
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- Posts: 255
- Joined: 3 years ago
Thanks for all of that!BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Regarding Dan's points, I would be less concerned with Stainless Steel frames if I were running a commercial cafe where the equipment is a depreciating asset that a portion of which would be written off every year as well as its maintenance that I wouldn't be personally doing. However in my home where I may keep a machine for a long time I wouldn't want to see or deal with rust that I believe would eventually be at the very least a nuisance factor. I've attached a pic of our machine (7yrs old), that has a Stainless Steel frame. I'm sure that when it comes time to sell, that showing a potential buyer how to switch from Reservoir to Direct Plumbed and where and how to turn on or off the alarm, that a potential buyer seeing any rust would be turned off as they would also wonder about rust and general condition where they cannot see it. This would result in sale price that would have to be lowered by perhaps several hundred dollars or no sale at all at that point.
Let me draw your attention to these links:
Your machine I believe. "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'. However, at about 13-minutes into the video he does say it's a 'Stainless Steel Fame'. So which is it? I believe the Tech Specs for now.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collecti ... so-machine
ECM Synchronika - "Frame Material - Steel" Not 'Stainless Steel'.
https://www.wholelattelove.com/collect ... so-machine
Izzo Alex Duetto IV:
"HIGHLIGHTS
We introduced Izzo to the North American consumer decades ago and they still impress us daily! Unwavering focus on quality from the stainless steel frame, gorgeous industrial stainless steel body, down to the bits that you won't see - like the stainless steel mushroom and gicleur. The Alex Duetto not only stands out on the counter of your kitchen, but you'll be just as impressed as we are daily with the build quality for decades to come."
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/i ... -duetto-iv
Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo
"TECHNICAL NOTES
PID display with shot timer
Stainless steel mushroom & gicleur valve
Stainless steel body shell
Stainless steel frame
Stainless steel boilers
E61 commercial group
No Burn, stainless steel steam and hot water arms
Rotary pump, placed vertically to prevent any motor issues
Easy access to the rotary, a tab on the right panel
Water reservoir with a low water sensor
Panels on the bottom base, access to the heaters and the boiler drains
Bottom fed BPA free water reservoir"
https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/qu ... vetrano-2b
All these machine are very good machines. For myself, when considering what machine to buy I'm thinking about service factors because I'll be doing all the service and I'm also thinking about the other side of the deal, what will selling and going out of the deal look like.
We're getting too deep into the weeds. Any of these machine will keep most owners happy for quite some time with the espresso produced - as long as you have good beans, good water and a good grinder.
To cajunbaseball:
Congratulations - I'm sure you're going to love your Vetrano!
We have had great tech support from Chris' Coffee and advice in general.
The best advice I can offer is to use non-scaling water right out of the box. That will go a long way to avoid many avoidable problems.
Best of Luck & Enjoy!
If I put repairability first, from all the tear downs I've seen, I'd pick ECM Synchronika.
The other big deal is the NSF certification, if you want to use the machine professionally. These machines used to be constructed with lead solder and other metals which would gradually leach into the water. I'm sure that's stopped, but a certified machine is the safest bet, don't you think?
I've been restoring a very badly abused Pavoni lever machine. It's not stainless but it's coming together very well.
- Jeff
- Team HB
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NSF certification has little to do with quality or longevity. It is around materials and "cleanability", such as feet tall enough to clean under the machine.
Any current machine sold in the EU has to be "lead free". As virtually all machines most here would consider are sold in the EU, I think it is safe to assume they would meet EU health standards.
Any current machine sold in the EU has to be "lead free". As virtually all machines most here would consider are sold in the EU, I think it is safe to assume they would meet EU health standards.