flyingtoaster wrote:Having a La Pavoni, the only thing I desire in a lever machine is a temperature-controlled grouphead. Not having used one, I imagine the benefits of a spring lever, while useful in a coffee shop, wouldn't translate to a home environment. A spring reduces effort, which is important for baristas pulling shots all day. However, with a spring lever, if you get the grind size wrong during dial in, you can't stop and pre-infuse or pull a turbo (correct me here - or can you by fighting the lever?). Rather, you have to throw away a shot. This might not be a big deal in a cafe where they are dialing in 5-lb bags, but I don't want to have a bad shot on the 18 GBP per 500g bag I brought home from England.

I don't know that they reduce effort in the classical sense - you still have to compress the spring - but they do aid in consistency, particularly across multiple users. I guess that's less hands-on/mental effort, though.

I gently wet, and then pre-infuse, each shot. You can also retard the lever on the way up, reducing puck pressure; this is something that I'll often do at the start of an extraction of my wife's darker beans. It seems to reduce the odds of channeling, particularly when her beans are towards the end of their freshness. I don't know if there's a linkage between the lever and piston to facilitate increasing the extraction pressure, but I've never felt the inclination to try, and don't think that I ever will.

After a year of use, once past the getting-to-know-you phase of the new machine, I can probably count the number of shots that I've dumped, because they were so far off, on two fingers.

Graymatters wrote: I don't know if there's a linkage between the lever and piston to facilitate increasing the extraction pressure, but I've never felt the inclination to try, and don't think that I ever will.

yes, you just gently help the lever go up. The amount of retardation or encouragement you have to give the lever to make a difference in pressure is surprisingly small!

Forgive me for not going through every post, but did anyone mention the Odyssey Argos? I know it isn't a proven machine yet, but it might tick a lot of those boxes and plenty of folks have sold a BDB for their order.

Graymatters wrote:.....so I opted for high, open shelves above the machine, instead of cabinets. ....

That is something that I will have to do if I buy that machine. I have just checked the height of the body itself ( 492 mm), and it would not fit under the cabinet. And even if it did, I would have needed enough clearance to fill the tank. Also, since lifting the tank (for cleaning) would not be possible under the cabinet, I would have to move the machine each time which in this case does seem to be practical to do. The Breville is on coaster wheels and it is not that heavy.
I have another space that I can dedicate to espresso, with removable shelves.

Few more questions, if I may. Last ones, I promise.

The portafilter are 58mm. Do they fit regular 58 mm baskets and funnels?
If not, is the single dose basket that come with the machine similar to the La Marzocco 7gr? I may use the Tidaka funnel with it if it is of the same shape, and not shallow and rounded as it happens for the brands.
Do you haver use it for single espresso, and is it OK?

How ofter did you have to empty the drip tray when it was not plumbed, on average?

From the videos I have not really understood if you have or if you do not have to flush the grouped to adjust the temperature before pulling a shot. What do you do?

baldheadracing wrote:...An appliance-grade machine (this is not a dis) like a Breville is designed to survive with little to no such maintenance until it just dies and you get a new/refurbished one...

Thank you for your input and the heads up about the commercial components.
Regarding the Breville, again, great machine, beautiful features that you cannot find in any other machine at any price, however my experience with my three BDB was not like the one you describe, unless you are talking about very few months of use at 5-8 shots per day. Really few months.

Some really great advices by long time lever heads thus far!

Direct (or manual) levers: Lever rests in down position. Lifting the lever allows water to fill the space between the piston and the coffee bed. Lowering the lever applies downward force on the piston and pushes water through the puck. Extraction pressure is controlled by the barista and the puck resistance.

Spring (or commercial) levers: Lever rests in raised position. Lowering the lever will allow water from the boiler or HX to fill the space between the piston and coffee bed. Releasing the lever will engage the spring and extraction will happen without further manipulation of the lever.

I'm in agreement with:
49/51mm groups (Cremina, La Pavoni, etc): Require some temperature management and at least 1 boiler refill for your daily needs.
BUT... Those smaller group machine pull a GREAT shot and typically do very well with lower doses so you could find a happy place around 11-12g instead of your usual single 8g pull.
A used Cremina or Olympia Club could very well be the answer. They do however require some level of thermal management although not as much as a non-modified La Pavoni.
And Yes, La Pavoni's can easily be modified for better thermal stability a pull consecutive shots.

58mm spring lever: A "simpler" machine in terms of workflow. Compared to smaller lever groups, most prosumer lever machines can be left ON all day and have better temperature stability and shot repeatability. They are pretty much walk and pull.
The Strega runs on the hot side and has often been referred to as a better machine for light roasts.

Vectis seems like a good fit although currently, we don't know much about thermal management and how many shots you can pull on a full boiler. We should learn more soon.

Pro800 or any older Londinium (L1 or R) would suit you better I believe.

One last suggestion, given your preferences for smaller shots would be the Ponte Vecchio Lusso.
It's not as robust as an Olympia Express nor a prosumer lever but it's a very simple machine that pulls and amazingly sweet ristretto.

I was reviewed by the HB team a few years ago:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso Review

Moka 1 Cup wrote:... Thank you for your input and the heads up about the commercial components.
Regarding the Breville, again, great machine, beautiful features that you cannot find in any other machine at any price, however my experience with my three BDB was not like the one you describe, unless you are talking about very few months of use at 5-8 shots per day. Really few months.

I was referring to appliance-grade products in general, not your specific experience.

As for your specific experience, I have no idea. The obvious culprit is water quality, but that's part of espresso machine maintenance ...

I rule the water out since I have always been using Pavlis water. I wish that was the problem.

bgnome wrote:Forgive me for not going through every post, but did anyone mention the Odyssey Argos? I know it isn't a proven machine yet, but it might tick a lot of those boxes and plenty of folks have sold a BDB for their order.

Time will tell on the Argos. They should start shipping pretty soon and then we'll have a better idea of how good it really is. It seems like a really good size for home use and I love the idea of being able to switch between manual and spring lever.

In my experience, while automatic performance offers capable more efficient and consistent ease of use, manual gives on the fly performance control right to engineered limits. When you get to know the limits being able to manually control them is rewarding on many levels. Automatic control becomes more of a concession, not a convenience. Manual control is physical and with more variables to control it can be intimidating but if you're ok with a learning curve and reasonable experimentation you'll probably bond with a lever machine in a way that it becomes more of an extension of yourself than a pump driven automatic ever will.

I think "I'm sold" on the Profitec 800. It checks so many boxes, just need to double check a couple of things, mainly where to position it. My wife has come out with a couple of nice solutions for a new dedicated space (that obviously means further $$$ to be spent...)
At this stage I would say that I need to see where to buy it from. WLL has a refurbished one that I don't think I want. I'd either go with a new one and and be sure that I would be the only one that can be blamed when something fails