Thinking about a lever machine, but I have never had one. [decided for Profitec Pro 800] - Page 2

#11: Post by **pizzaman383** » March 19th, 2023, 11:36 am

Milligan wrote:Although not ideal, if the lever is positioned between the doors then the doors could swing out and away before they knock into it.

This is how I have my lever machine positioned (but my lever is positioned at the hinges). The specific dimensions of the group head, lever, drip tray, and cabinet doors make a difference.

March 19th, 2023, 11:48 am

Thank you guys. That is comforting. This morning I felt really stupid about not having considered the space constraints

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baldheadracing wrote:Q's:
1. Do you want the best currently-available new machine for your needs, or the best currently-available new lever machine for your needs?
2. What do you want to change about your BDB experience?

I am going to answer question n.2 first. We really like the BDB. Really. However (as you can read here) after four years of use I am considering alternatives. The problem is that even if I increase my budget I am not sure I am going to get what I really want. Not even a Micra or a Mini would probably make me happy. I will soon receive a brand new DBD. I have to decide if I want to stick to Breville and maybe learn how to maintain it in perfect working conditions and be willing to do it extensively, or just sell it and change platform.
As far as your first question is concerned, the reason why I am heavily considering a lever machine, is that in addition to the the fact that I think that I like how they work, I hope that would also minimize downtime and maintenance, or at least I hope. There are still few things that I am not sure of. For example that you have to pull the cup in order to stop the shot and let the remaining water drain into the tray still seems a little odd to me

.
Start up time may also be a big concern. as well. I read that the Londinium take a life and a half when compared to the DBD or the Micra. The Profitec 800, if what I read is correct may take 15-20 minutes. Still longer but probably acceptable.

#13: Post by **Graymatters** » March 19th, 2023, 12:10 pm

If it helps, in terms of space allocation, the lever on my Pro 800 is about 29" tall, in the resting position (upright, slightly canted back), and about 15" from the back wall (the back of the machine is about 2" out from the wall, including backsplash) - cabinet uppers are getting deeper, but that should still accommodate the vast majority. I happened to buy my 800 as a part of a kitchen remodel, so I opted for high, open shelves above the machine, instead of cabinets.

In terms of use, I really like mine, having come from 15 years of E61 use. Sliding the cup/scale out of the way is a bit of a change, but it's no biggie, though having large and/or plumbed drip tray helps a lot.

The only other concern that I'd have, with others using the machine, is that they understand the importance of having a firm hold on the lever - having the lever slip out of hand, particularly without a puck in the group, is a bad, bad thing. As long as they get that message, it's easy peasy.

#14: Post by **Graymatters** » March 19th, 2023, 12:13 pm

Moka 1 Cup wrote:Start up time may also be a big concern. as well. I read that the Londinium take a life and a half when compared to the DBD or the Micra. The Profitec 800, if what I read is correct may take 15-20 minutes. Still longer but probably acceptable.

I have mine on a smart plug. It's set to turn on 45 min before I'd be likely to get out of bed, so that it's walk-up ready first thing in the morning. Waiting for a machine to warm up is self-inflicted hell.

#15: Post by **erik82** » March 19th, 2023, 12:18 pm

A Profitec will also use a pump so if it's only for filling the boiler or also for PI the maintenance won't be different. And with your use I'd write off all small manual levers and go with a spring lever.

March 19th, 2023, 12:20 pm

Thanks for the info.

Graymatters wrote:I have mine on a smart plug. It's set to turn on 45 min before I'd be likely to get out of bed, so that it's walk-up ready first thing in the morning. Waiting for a machine to warm up is self-inflicted hell.

That is what I did with the Gaggia. I could also turn it on remotely, before getting home.

Thanks for the dimensions!

Question: I have read that the 800 can be left on for hours without real issues. Is that correct?

#17: Post by **Graymatters** » March 19th, 2023, 12:25 pm

erik82 wrote:A Profitec will also use a pump so if it's only for filling the boiler or also for PI the maintenance won't be different. And with your use I'd write off all small manual levers and go with a spring lever.

Until/unless it gets plumbed, in which case the pump doesn't get used at all (I know - is not in the cards for the OP in the near future). Because of some indecision and supply issues, I didn't get my 800 plumbed until 6 weeks ago, but - oh my goodness - I'm never going back. While it's not totally silent, it's still quite polite, and the combination of plumbed supply and drip tray is heavenly.

#18: Post by **Graymatters** » March 19th, 2023, 12:32 pm

Moka 1 Cup wrote:Question: I have read that the 800 can be left on for hours without real issues. Is that correct?

I've never had an issue, but I'm not obsessive; some say that it can get too hot (for optimal use) after a couple/few hours, others disagree. I usually have mine on from 5am - 10am, though I'll cut those hours shorter in the summer (less heating of the house and less personal inclination for hot drinks late in the morning).

March 19th, 2023, 12:46 pm

erik82 wrote:The first queston you need to ask yourself is if you want the convenience of a large spring lever or you want to fiddle around with a small manual lever with the downsides. A large spring lever like the Profitec 800, Londinium and Bezzera Strega can pull great shots all day long without worrying about anything. A big lever you can turn on, leave on and pull shots whenever you want. With a small lever you need to plan to turn it on before a session, watch temperature management and do a sesison and turn it off. Keep this in mind as that'll probably give you an idea what direction you want to go.

Small lever give small shots, have bad temperature management (Pavoni) and need all kind of fiddling around to get a good shot. Also don't expect to pull more then 2-3 shots with them in a session without getting into problems. Especially if you like medium to dark roasts a 49mm filterbasket will only hold around 12-14gr and thus give small shots. There are 18gr filterbaskets but they're too tall and just don't work that well and the group of those small levers will be too small to even get to a 1:2 ratio. If you steam a lot there just not that capable of doing that other then 1-2 capps in a session but it'll take you 2-3 times as long as with your current machine.

Don't think about the pump on a Stega, Profitec or Londinium as something bad as it's a totally different principle then on a semi. Those lever machines will pull superb shots all day long with the biggest ease. That's the great thing about spring levers.

Let me make clear that I owned a new Cremina, La Pavoni, Strega and have worked with the Londinium multiple times. I own a Strietman and love those manual levers but it needs to fit your personal situation. A Londinium for example is a great commercial beast which will spit out great espresso and steam milk all day long without a hassle.

Having a La Pavoni, the only thing I desire in a lever machine is a temperature-controlled grouphead. Not having used one, I imagine the benefits of a spring lever, while useful in a coffee shop, wouldn't translate to a home environment. A spring reduces effort, which is important for baristas pulling shots all day. However, with a spring lever, if you get the grind size wrong during dial in, you can't stop and pre-infuse or pull a turbo (correct me here - or can you by fighting the lever?). Rather, you have to throw away a shot. This might not be a big deal in a cafe where they are dialing in 5-lb bags, but I don't want to have a bad shot on the 18 GBP per 500g bag I brought home from England.

March 19th, 2023, 1:00 pm

Moka 1 Cup wrote:Thank you guys. That is comforting. This morning I felt really stupid about not having considered the space constraints .

I am going to answer question n.2 first. We really like the BDB. Really. However (as you can read here) after four years of use I am considering alternatives. The problem is that even if I increase my budget I am not sure I am going to get what I really want. Not even a Micra or a Mini would probably make me happy. I will soon receive a brand new DBD. I have to decide if I want to stick to Breville and maybe learn how to maintain it in perfect working conditions and be willing to do it extensively, or just sell it and change platform.
As far as your first question is concerned, the reason why I am heavily considering a lever machine, is that in addition to the the fact that I think that I like how they work, I hope that would also minimize downtime and maintenance, or at least I hope. There are still few things that I am not sure of. For example that you have to pull the cup in order to stop the shot and let the remaining water drain into the tray still seems a little odd to me .
Start up time may also be a big concern. as well. I read that the Londinium take a life and a half when compared to the DBD or the Micra. The Profitec 800, if what I read is correct may take 15-20 minutes. Still longer but probably acceptable.

None of the machines being mentioned are appliances - Micra, Mini, Pro800, Londinium, Strega, Cremina, Pavoni, Elektra, etc. They typically use commercial components and often commercial levels of construction. They require daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annual maintenance and service - much more work than a BDB. An appliance-grade machine (this is not a dis) like a Breville is designed to survive with little to no such maintenance until it just dies and you get a new/refurbished one. A properly-maintained commercial machine will last for decades. An improperly-maintained machine quickly ends up on eBay or Craigslist. Just look at the listings for broken Silvia's (about the least-expensive commercial-quality machine, and thus one of the least-properly maintained).

The Pro 800 warming up at 15-20 minutes is a joke. The boiler element will turn off at 15-20 minutes.

FWIW, I would estimate 8 minutes on a Micra = 15 minutes on a BDB = 35 minutes on a typical electrically-heated commercial lever group(*) = 45 minutes on a typical E-61 = 60 minutes on a non-electrically-heated commercial spring lever group. (* - I have no experience with the newer double-boiler commercial lever group machines.)