Super-automatic in 2020, Europe/Germany

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
comebacktocoffee
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by comebacktocoffee »

Hello all,

Took me some days in reading the forum before deciding to place my question. I want to know your opinion on modern super-autos, but I know this is an almost off-topic. It is the usual case: need to buy a new machine to my in-laws, they currently have a Bosch Verobar 300 that is brewing oil instead of coffee (in my opinion :lol: ) but they still love it. The thing is falling to pieces and the beans they have are a non-expensive German €14/kg type that tastes decent (a bit sour) in my Hario grinder (double pass) and FP.

They like German stuff, they like known brands. But I came in to change that figure. I was researching here in the forum and landed on Gaggia brand suggestions, there is currently a "Gaggia Cardona" line which seems decent for a budget of € 500-600, but pretty hard to find here in Germany. I wonder if maintenance could be as hard as well.

I saw some posts here in the forum, but the most consistent advice with references and comparisons were posts from 2007-2010. I assume technology and R&D kicked in during these last 10 years. I can easily find Saeco, Jura, Siemens, Philips, De'Longhi machines. I have no clue which ones make sense. One member here said that in general these brands (Philips, Miele, Bosch, or so) do not make machines, just use the project and put their brand. But Philips bought Saeco (together with Gaggia) in 2009 and sold 'em in 2017 (still have some models in their website though). Bosch/Siemens seem to be doing their projects by themselves, De'Longhi and Jura as well. Miele I have no idea and honestly I don't think they are a good direction, anyways.

I was researching some models, it seems that the following have some promise over this budget:

Gaggia Cadorna Style or Plus
Jura E6
Saeco Royal Gran Crema
Saeco Incanto
Saeco PicoBarista or PicoBarista Deluxe
De'Longhi ESAM 5556 B Perfecta
De'Longhi ESAM 04.320.S Magnifica
De'Longhi ESAM 428.40.BS Perfecta Evo

I, of course, do not need a full analysis on each model. Just a general guidance on what to look for, what to directly avoid, Etc.

I hope we can revive the discussion for that specific group. Thanks for your time.

Amadeus

User avatar
Bluecold
Posts: 1774
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by Bluecold »

comebacktocoffee wrote:Just a general guidance on what to look for, what to directly avoid, Etc.
As general guidance, avoid superautomatics. Buy a grinder and a technivorm. Enjoy your brew, and let the nerds fuss over espresso. Germans as a general rule can't make good coffee machines. Because they like machines, and to them, the coffee is secondary.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

comebacktocoffee (original poster)
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 years ago

#3: Post by comebacktocoffee (original poster) »

Avoid super is in discussion but I believe I will not be able to convince the family to do so.

AboHadi
Posts: 9
Joined: 5 years ago

#4: Post by AboHadi »

Hi

To add to your list:

At work we have a Melitta Caffeo Barista TS , bought after some research into various options. Might not be for everyone, but it has been working well for the past 6 months with quite a heavy daily use .

Check it out. It does make quite a decent coffee for a super auto. And can take two types of beans at once ( if they like to mix and change or a regular and decaf :| )

luvmy40
Posts: 1143
Joined: 4 years ago

#5: Post by luvmy40 »

Just a suggestion;

I've never owned a super auto but I seem to recall the most prevelant issues with them when they go down is with the mechanics involved with moving the puck.

Take a look at something like the Breville Oracle which grinds, doses and tamps in the portafilter but does not move the puck. You place the portfilter in the grind station, then move it to the brew head for extraction then manually knock the puc.

Another advantage to the Breville would be the included pressurized baskets since your ILs prefer off the shelf beans.

Not sure if the Barista Express tamps or if it just has the built in grinder.

Anyway, just another option.

drH
Posts: 891
Joined: 4 years ago

#6: Post by drH »

I have a friend who has been using a Jura for almost ten years without any problems. He loves it and makes at least two doubles a day. I've tasted with him and it does a good job with name brand beans like Lavazza and Dalmayr(German brand). If that's all I cared about I would look at the Jura machines.

comebacktocoffee (original poster)
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 years ago

#7: Post by comebacktocoffee (original poster) »

The good news is that after a long talk with the family, there is a high chance we will go first to a grinder+FP scenario, then think about a espresso machine. More news to come soon. So far, if this is not successful, Gaggia Cardona Style was preliminary selected with a 498 eur promo price. Thanks for the answers and please feel free to keep adding comments. BR

myso
Posts: 187
Joined: 5 years ago

#8: Post by myso »

Melitta caffeo ci?

Melitta has wide service network in DE and this model has removable brew group. You take it apart soak in cafiza (or another backflush detergent) and have access to clean inside the machine. When it's seen enough abuse and beyond cleaning you replace the brew group with a new one.

Fully auto espresso machines can be extremely disgusting inside. I'd prefer a model which you can deeply clean.