Advice please...Two questions.
1) I was looking at the Rocket Giotto machine and then I found the QuickMill machines, then the expobar...Isomac Millenium/TEA/Zaffiro, Izzo Vivi PID, Quick Mill Anita Evo/Andreja Premium/67, Vetrano 2B, Carisma... And they are all (almost) exactly the same (mirroring the Evoluzione/R58), so who is copying who, and is one worth buying over the other?

2) I found this machine (http://waltcoffee.co.za/product/sabina- ... o-1-group/) but cannot find a single review on it, can anyone vouch for it or advise me otherwise?

Thanks.

Here in the states Rocket, Quick Mill, Izzo and Vibiemme and to a lesser extent (IMO) Expobar have good reputations. That may simply be because the best industry vendors support those brands and work with the manufacturers to address issues and make improvements. I don't hear much about Isomac, and I believe (IIRC) that's because the vendors who used to carry them did not find the manufacturer responsive to problems and upgrades.

I don't think you can go wrong with Rocket, Quick Mill, Izzo or Expobar. Local service on any those brands is an important consideration, unless you're handy enough to repair them yourself.

All of the E61 machines use off the shelf components for a lot of the internals, and differentiate themselves on things like copper vs. stainless boilers, wiring layout, placement/protection of electronic components, possibly boiler coatings like Quick Mill's T.E.A/Ruveco Teck. In choosing between these machines, go with looks as much as anything else since you'll be staring at it every day.

Just like jfrescki's opinion above, I think there aren't that much differences between the machines you mentioned (as long as the price roughly matches).
The Expobar is a bit cheaper here in Europe than the others, but still it has a good reputation as being a solid "budget choice". There was a review of it at the Bella Barista site which said (if I recall it right) something that the internal wirings were done a bit messier than the other machines of the same calibre. The Expobar is made in Spain not in Italy as the other brands.
https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/Expo ... achine.pdf
You should also be able to find detailed reviews from Bella Barista site at least for Rocket Giotto Evoluzione and some Izzo machine.

I used to own a single boiler Isomac machine. I have nothing bad to say about it and to my knowledge the present owner is happy with it despite it being 10 years old. Never needed any special maintaining (other than basic cleaning etc. routines).

The design of E61 machines (especially HXs) hasn't really changed much along the years, and they are using mostly standard parts. So basically you could almost say they are the same thing in a different box. And not in a very different box.

I have never heard of the Sabine machine though, sorry.

jfrescki wrote:Here in the states Rocket, Quick Mill, Izzo and Vibiemme and to a lesser extent (IMO) Expobar have good reputations. That may simply be because the best industry vendors support those brands and work with the manufacturers to address issues and make improvements. I don't hear much about Isomac, and I believe (IIRC) that's because the vendors who used to carry them did not find the manufacturer responsive to problems and upgrades.

I don't think you can go wrong with Rocket, Quick Mill, Izzo or Expobar. Local service on any those brands is an important consideration, unless you're handy enough to repair them yourself.

All of the E61 machines use off the shelf components for a lot of the internals, and differentiate themselves on things like copper vs. stainless boilers, wiring layout, placement/protection of electronic components, possibly boiler coatings like Quick Mill's T.E.A/Ruveco Teck. In choosing between these machines, go with looks as much as anything else since you'll be staring at it every day.

ahem, let's not forget Profitec

Thanks for the feedback!

Don't forget Bezzera. They've been around since 1901.

I went through the same exercise recently and purchased a Rocket Giotto. All good advice here. My strategy; compile a short list based on information available here. Shop around and get a good feel for prices. Then watch reputable websites and local dealers and take advantage of sales, open box items, buyers remorse etc. Don't be in a hurry.

altiplano wrote:I like the Rocket, ECM, and Izzo machines.

What kind of name is Profitec.

Pardon? Am I missing something?

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