Slayer vs Synesso vs Speedster
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: 2 years ago
Good morning, afternoon and evening to y'all.
First post.
I have been playing and making espresso since I got my first Proteo from Starbucks decades ago.
As I am very pretty happy with my current set up, but as we all know, upgraditis is a real thing.
I have been thinking heavily towards a single group Slayer or Synesso paired with a Ceado Hero.
Hence the dilemma. The Slayer with its needle valve preinfusion. Or the Synesso MVP with that and a little more.
Any comments, pros and cons are appreciated.
Cheers!
First post.
I have been playing and making espresso since I got my first Proteo from Starbucks decades ago.
As I am very pretty happy with my current set up, but as we all know, upgraditis is a real thing.
I have been thinking heavily towards a single group Slayer or Synesso paired with a Ceado Hero.
Hence the dilemma. The Slayer with its needle valve preinfusion. Or the Synesso MVP with that and a little more.
Any comments, pros and cons are appreciated.
Cheers!
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- Team HB
- Posts: 5528
- Joined: 16 years ago
I've no opinion on the machine choice, but the Hero is the only grinder that's ever made me stop while walking the isles at SCA because it was so beautiful, of course, IMHO. But, as far as I can remember, I've only ever seen one person with a Hero mention it, so difficult to comment on its abilities.
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- Posts: 552
- Joined: 4 years ago
Interesting choices. I believe Denis (Kafatek) tried both machines and could offer some insight. Let's hope more people will chime in too.
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- Peppersass
- Supporter ❤
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- Joined: 15 years ago
If I was in the market for a new machine in the price range you're considering, I'd bite the bullet and get the Synesso MVP (assuming that means MVP Hydra.)
The Slayer method produces excellent shots from light roasts. I've modified my GS/3 AV for flow and pressure profiling, which allows me to exactly mimic a Slayer shot. But as I have complete control over the gear pump, I can ramp down pressure during the back half of the shot, which I consider an essential improvement. The original Slayer didn't allow varying the gear pump speed during the shot, and it's not possible to do that with the newer Slayers that have a rotary pump.
The Synesso can do the same modified Slayer shots I do. It also gives you much more extensive control over flow and pressure than the Slayer (and probably more than I have), so if you like to experiment and/or find the optimum way to pull a shot, it's going to be the better choice -- by far. To me, if I was going to spend $9.500 on a new machine, I'd find another $3K for the Synesso. If you love light roasts and love to experiement, as I do, then it'll be worth it in the long run.
Not to muddy the water (pun intended), but I believe the Decent would give you the same level of control as the Synesso, albeit without volumetric control (I think.) Personally, I don't like volumetric dosing. I regulate my shots by weight (automated by Bluetooth connection between my control software and an Acaia Lunar scale.) However, there's no comparison between the build quality of the Synesso and the Decent, so if that's important to you, Synesso is the way to go.
I don't know much about the Ceado Hero grinder, but I'm a huge fan of Kafatek grinders. If I was going to get the Synesso, I'd probably sell my Monolith Flat and pair the Synesso with a Monolith Flat Max. My guess is that's what Denis is using these days. The burrs are 95mm versus 83mm for the Hero (the standard Flat burrs are 75mm), and the new Shuriken burrs Denis has designed are awesome (though slow, which doesn't bother me.) The Max is $2K less expensive than the Hero, covering 2/3 of the price difference between Slayer+Hero and Synesso+Max. From the photos it looks like the Max takes up a lot less counter space than the Hero.
The Slayer method produces excellent shots from light roasts. I've modified my GS/3 AV for flow and pressure profiling, which allows me to exactly mimic a Slayer shot. But as I have complete control over the gear pump, I can ramp down pressure during the back half of the shot, which I consider an essential improvement. The original Slayer didn't allow varying the gear pump speed during the shot, and it's not possible to do that with the newer Slayers that have a rotary pump.
The Synesso can do the same modified Slayer shots I do. It also gives you much more extensive control over flow and pressure than the Slayer (and probably more than I have), so if you like to experiment and/or find the optimum way to pull a shot, it's going to be the better choice -- by far. To me, if I was going to spend $9.500 on a new machine, I'd find another $3K for the Synesso. If you love light roasts and love to experiement, as I do, then it'll be worth it in the long run.
Not to muddy the water (pun intended), but I believe the Decent would give you the same level of control as the Synesso, albeit without volumetric control (I think.) Personally, I don't like volumetric dosing. I regulate my shots by weight (automated by Bluetooth connection between my control software and an Acaia Lunar scale.) However, there's no comparison between the build quality of the Synesso and the Decent, so if that's important to you, Synesso is the way to go.
I don't know much about the Ceado Hero grinder, but I'm a huge fan of Kafatek grinders. If I was going to get the Synesso, I'd probably sell my Monolith Flat and pair the Synesso with a Monolith Flat Max. My guess is that's what Denis is using these days. The burrs are 95mm versus 83mm for the Hero (the standard Flat burrs are 75mm), and the new Shuriken burrs Denis has designed are awesome (though slow, which doesn't bother me.) The Max is $2K less expensive than the Hero, covering 2/3 of the price difference between Slayer+Hero and Synesso+Max. From the photos it looks like the Max takes up a lot less counter space than the Hero.
- Terranova
- Supporter ❤
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- Joined: 12 years ago
I have both machines, the new v4 should be a bit better than the previous v3 single group which needed every 2 years a new gear pump ($750) and 1 transducer ($300) per year.
The 1 year service kit for the Slayer is a huge bag and costs $300 wheareas the Synesso is built like a tank and needs close to nothing in terms of service.
I can still grind a bit finer for the Slayer, extract higher and the machine is also more compact. It also depends if you like the ramping style of the Synesso, IMHO a proper pre infusion (pre brew) does all the trick, no need for fancy pressure profiling like the Decent or Strada can do. Playing with the grind has a much bigger impact. (IMHO)
On this side of the river the MVP is 11.5k€ vs 9.8k€ for the Slayer both + 19% tax / VAT.
The 1 year service kit for the Slayer is a huge bag and costs $300 wheareas the Synesso is built like a tank and needs close to nothing in terms of service.
I can still grind a bit finer for the Slayer, extract higher and the machine is also more compact. It also depends if you like the ramping style of the Synesso, IMHO a proper pre infusion (pre brew) does all the trick, no need for fancy pressure profiling like the Decent or Strada can do. Playing with the grind has a much bigger impact. (IMHO)
On this side of the river the MVP is 11.5k€ vs 9.8k€ for the Slayer both + 19% tax / VAT.
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: 2 years ago
Thank you for the prompt, concise and honest reviews on both.
I am thankful for Terranova's input on the maintenance required for the Slayer. While it isn't the cost of it that bothers me. It is the hassle. Hopefully not to offend any Ferrari owners. But the reason I never got one was the fact that all my friends who have them. Love them. But they always seem to be in the shop than more on the road.
And. Also thankful to Peppersass for the comparison of the Slayer and Synesso differences. Synesso does seem to have the edge when it comes to flexibility. I'll head down to their factory and take a peek at one when I get the chance.
I thought about the Kafatek. Conical or/and flat. But. I also think about service. What happens if and when Denis gets out of the grinder game. Ceado has been around for over 70 years. So, it's my guess it will be around when I'm gone as well. I've looked and thought of others as well. Mythos etc. but, the Hero keeps coming back to me. I also thought about getting a smaller commercial roller grinder. But even my amazing wife has limits and I don't want to test them. Let's put it this way. I thought about buying an 80 quart commercial Hobart mixer to put in our kitchen. It's about 5 feet tall and who knows how much it weighs. I don't even bake. Never. Not once. She was open to the idea. The only caveat was that I rent one first and see if I like it. I decided against it eventually.
The Decent machine. Let's just say that it does have a strong following. And I am happy John is making something in that price range with that performance. But. It just isn't my cup of tea.
Thank you again for your insightful input.
If anyone else has any input. I am happy to hear from y'all.
I am thankful for Terranova's input on the maintenance required for the Slayer. While it isn't the cost of it that bothers me. It is the hassle. Hopefully not to offend any Ferrari owners. But the reason I never got one was the fact that all my friends who have them. Love them. But they always seem to be in the shop than more on the road.
And. Also thankful to Peppersass for the comparison of the Slayer and Synesso differences. Synesso does seem to have the edge when it comes to flexibility. I'll head down to their factory and take a peek at one when I get the chance.
I thought about the Kafatek. Conical or/and flat. But. I also think about service. What happens if and when Denis gets out of the grinder game. Ceado has been around for over 70 years. So, it's my guess it will be around when I'm gone as well. I've looked and thought of others as well. Mythos etc. but, the Hero keeps coming back to me. I also thought about getting a smaller commercial roller grinder. But even my amazing wife has limits and I don't want to test them. Let's put it this way. I thought about buying an 80 quart commercial Hobart mixer to put in our kitchen. It's about 5 feet tall and who knows how much it weighs. I don't even bake. Never. Not once. She was open to the idea. The only caveat was that I rent one first and see if I like it. I decided against it eventually.
The Decent machine. Let's just say that it does have a strong following. And I am happy John is making something in that price range with that performance. But. It just isn't my cup of tea.
Thank you again for your insightful input.
If anyone else has any input. I am happy to hear from y'all.
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- Team HB
- Posts: 5528
- Joined: 16 years ago
LM Leva might also be a consideration. Only a couple around here, but Greg Scace has one and says it's close to or is his favorite espresso machine ever and he's generally worth listening to. It will certainly fit in right next to a Hero. Expensive though, maybe double the Slayer, but in my mind, that and a KVW are the best looking machines or the most dramatic looking machines there are.
- spressomon
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: 12 years ago
No dog in the fight but wow, I feel super lucky and super grateful...I must have gotten one of the rare reliable Slayers (V3). Other than the pump, which they warrantied for me even though I was outside of the 2-year warranty, its just been replacing group head seals and steam arm o-rings on an annual or so basis and swapping out the original OPV valve.
I'm more than pleased with its overall reliability and especially what gets delivered in the cup, given its going on 6-years old and used every day. All my former machines, except for the still current EspressoForge, have required more maintenance and parts than my Slayer has.
Now, I sure hope I didn't beckon the wrath of the espresso machine gods .
I'm more than pleased with its overall reliability and especially what gets delivered in the cup, given its going on 6-years old and used every day. All my former machines, except for the still current EspressoForge, have required more maintenance and parts than my Slayer has.
Now, I sure hope I didn't beckon the wrath of the espresso machine gods .
No Espresso = Depresso
- TomC
- Team HB
- Posts: 10552
- Joined: 13 years ago
Caffinator wrote:Good morning, afternoon and evening to y'all.
First post.
I have been playing and making espresso since I got my first Proteo from Starbucks decades ago.
As I am very pretty happy with my current set up, but as we all know, upgraditis is a real thing.
I have been thinking heavily towards a single group Slayer or Synesso paired with a Ceado Hero.
Hence the dilemma. The Slayer with its needle valve preinfusion. Or the Synesso MVP with that and a little more.
Any comments, pros and cons are appreciated.
Cheers!
Also, there's options to modify other machines to behave like both the Slayer and the Synsesso. My Linea does both.
Custom needle valve for flow control on La Marzocco Linea
ShureShot timers for La Marzocco, Synesso, Slayer etc
Join us and support Artisan Roasting Software=https://artisan-scope.org/donate/
- CarefreeBuzzBuzz
- Posts: 3875
- Joined: 7 years ago
I know a few Slayer owners that removed a SureShot. Maybe they are more advanced now but on theirs it couldn't be turned off and they didn't like that.TomC wrote:
Also, there's options to modify other machines to behave like both the Slayer and the Synsesso. My Linea does both.
Custom needle valve for flow control on La Marzocco Linea
ShureShot timers for La Marzocco, Synesso, Slayer etc