Single dose grinder, do I want it? - Page 3
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Deephaven
Gbw is fine, but in your budget there aren't any that have near zero retention which would be a hard stop for me.
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Martin
- Supporter ♡
"High end hand grinder." I have HG 1. You can read the raves and dings elsewhere. Whenever I want to serve coffee to a crowd--more than 3 or 4, it turns out just a few really crave espresso and usually I'm not so interested in playing barista, cranking out milk drinks. I keep on hand a French press and competent 10 cup pour over that satisfies most while I still can manage to break away from guests to pull a few shots. For not-espresso, I have have a good-enough baratza vario to save redialing the hg1 which takes lots of turning to go from fine to course.
As an aside, I also have a Mazzer Mini, which in days gone by was considered the gold standard for the home barista but has fallen out of favor compared to better and smaller, lighter options. These or other used grinders can often be picked up for cheap. I'd sell mine, but too much effort to dig out, pack and ship.
As an aside, I also have a Mazzer Mini, which in days gone by was considered the gold standard for the home barista but has fallen out of favor compared to better and smaller, lighter options. These or other used grinders can often be picked up for cheap. I'd sell mine, but too much effort to dig out, pack and ship.
Heat + Beans = Roast. All the rest is commentary.
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baldheadracing
- Team HB
The issue with hoppers is not so much the beans in the hopper; it is the beans that are partially ground and partially broken up that remain within the grinder's feed path before the burrs, and between the (flat) burrs. Those bits have broken the outer surface of the bean and so the insides of the beans go rancid much more quickly. Typically a purge is needed after a couple hours.iyayy wrote:while it still taste okay, it will eventually require grind change as days goes by because beans gradually becomes less crunchy compared to fresh roast.. maybe not yet stale, but on the way there? just like biscuit in kept in non airtight container. less crema too.
now i have never used hopper, so i cant comment how bad this issue is, but i've read a lot of post mentioned changing grinds finer daily. hopper is never vacuum sealed, because the grinder itself isnt. so it beans might stale faster than expected.
but feel free to pick doser you want if thats something within your tolerance.
(An exception to the above are single-dosing hoppers like Versalab, Titus, etc., that close the grind path after dosing.)
Grinder settings for espresso need to be adjusted daily ("dialing-in") for optimal results (frozen beans excepted). Mind you, I suspect that a lot of people don't do this, especially if they have large traditional conical espresso burrs, which (still?) have the widest "sweet spot" for dialing-in.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada
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Primacog
I cannot see any other way but single dosing for a single espresso a day. For that, the df64 represents great bang for buck imho. Then when you want to upgrade you can install SSP burrs.
I understand u dont want to get addicted to caffeine but heres the flip side - there is a study that found that the optimal number of espressos a day is 3 from the perspective of health...
https://www.insider.com/espresso-roast- ... ean-2021-1
Of course theres a always a study that says the opposite...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... er-day/amp
I understand u dont want to get addicted to caffeine but heres the flip side - there is a study that found that the optimal number of espressos a day is 3 from the perspective of health...
https://www.insider.com/espresso-roast- ... ean-2021-1
Of course theres a always a study that says the opposite...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... er-day/amp
LMWDP #729
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Trop_de_Cafe
You've received many suggestions, but no one has posed the question of why you are convinced you want or need a flat burr grinder.
A related question, perhaps provoked by noticing that you are in Milan, would be what would be your ideal espresso?
Do you favor more traditional Italian-style espresso, or do you enjoy what has been called "third-wave orange juice" - and how much do you reckon the burrset will skew your results?
I've no doubt that different burrs bring out different aspects of a given coffee, but have to ask: is that really what you are interested in exploring, do you think you will be able to taste the difference, and finally, is that where you want to put your money?
Forum discussions are great fun in part because contributors aren't playing with their own funds. (And, as enthusiasts know, while a cafe owner or a carpenter or a photographer may buy one reliable tool, learn to use it well, and figure out how to make it work in a variety of circumstances, the enthusiast, if s/he can afford it, will narrow it down to a couple of options - and then buy both!)
As others have pointed out in other threads, the quality of the coffee you buy tends to outweigh many of the nuances you may extract with different burrs.
I agree with much of the advice you have received.
-For a single espresso a day, you should get a single doser. Purging any significant amount of half-ground coffee is wasteful and gets expensive. It is also tedious.
-Regardless of the bang for the buck (or Euro), you couldn't pay me to play with a manual grinder on a regular basis, even was for as little as 16g/day. Similarly, like many others, I have futzed around with a couple of grinders (Mazzer Major, Compak K10) that were intended for high-volume cafe settings and I found no joy in brushing, puffing, etc. to try to minimize retention - for me, it just wasn't worth it, particularly for that first cup of the morning.
-The Niche workflow, in my experience, can't be beat. It is a joy to use compared to the half-dozen or so other grinders I've owned or borrowed, and I enjoy not having to think about it every morning. I'm also very happy with the Kony burrset, at least for the types of espresso coffee/extractions I favor (I do use a Forte BG for pourovers). I believe some grind directly into the portafilter.
-The Baratza grinders are not beautiful to look at (or to listen to), but they work well and with some simple mods they offer similarly minimal retention and an an easy workflow in a flat-burr format. I single-dosed a Vario for several years, with very good results.
I hope some of this is helpful.
TDC
P.S.
I've never even seen the DF64, so no offense to those who have it and love it, but you may want to want to watch James Hoffman's review on YouTube.
A related question, perhaps provoked by noticing that you are in Milan, would be what would be your ideal espresso?
Do you favor more traditional Italian-style espresso, or do you enjoy what has been called "third-wave orange juice" - and how much do you reckon the burrset will skew your results?
I've no doubt that different burrs bring out different aspects of a given coffee, but have to ask: is that really what you are interested in exploring, do you think you will be able to taste the difference, and finally, is that where you want to put your money?
Forum discussions are great fun in part because contributors aren't playing with their own funds. (And, as enthusiasts know, while a cafe owner or a carpenter or a photographer may buy one reliable tool, learn to use it well, and figure out how to make it work in a variety of circumstances, the enthusiast, if s/he can afford it, will narrow it down to a couple of options - and then buy both!)
As others have pointed out in other threads, the quality of the coffee you buy tends to outweigh many of the nuances you may extract with different burrs.
I agree with much of the advice you have received.
-For a single espresso a day, you should get a single doser. Purging any significant amount of half-ground coffee is wasteful and gets expensive. It is also tedious.
-Regardless of the bang for the buck (or Euro), you couldn't pay me to play with a manual grinder on a regular basis, even was for as little as 16g/day. Similarly, like many others, I have futzed around with a couple of grinders (Mazzer Major, Compak K10) that were intended for high-volume cafe settings and I found no joy in brushing, puffing, etc. to try to minimize retention - for me, it just wasn't worth it, particularly for that first cup of the morning.
-The Niche workflow, in my experience, can't be beat. It is a joy to use compared to the half-dozen or so other grinders I've owned or borrowed, and I enjoy not having to think about it every morning. I'm also very happy with the Kony burrset, at least for the types of espresso coffee/extractions I favor (I do use a Forte BG for pourovers). I believe some grind directly into the portafilter.
-The Baratza grinders are not beautiful to look at (or to listen to), but they work well and with some simple mods they offer similarly minimal retention and an an easy workflow in a flat-burr format. I single-dosed a Vario for several years, with very good results.
I hope some of this is helpful.
TDC
P.S.
I've never even seen the DF64, so no offense to those who have it and love it, but you may want to want to watch James Hoffman's review on YouTube.
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Primacog
I use the df64 every day and while its workflow is not as good as what the p64 and the niche zero are reported to be, it is still much better for single dosimg than any commerical 64mm flat butr grinder. Its performance for ita orice, a fraction of that for the p64 and the niche zero, males it really tough to beat.
LMWDP #729
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Mirazur (original poster)
Primacog wrote:I cannot see any other way but single dosing for a single espresso a day. For that, the df64 represents great bang for buck imho. Then when you want to upgrade you can install SSP burrs.
I understand u dont want to get addicted to caffeine but heres the flip side - there is a study that found that the optimal number of espressos a day is 3 from the perspective of health...
https://www.insider.com/espresso-roast- ... ean-2021-1
Of course theres a always a study that says the opposite...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... er-day/amp
I wouldn't have time to do 3 espresso anyway
@Trop De Cafe sorry it seems I can't post too often, gonna reply here
Thank you for your post!
As far as what kind of cofee do i like... good coffee?
I know it sound cheesy, but I come film the wine world where nost people (myself included) work by subtraction.
I don't like the average italian espresso / moka pot, I enjoy both the more trasitional style espresso (if properly made, stsrting from the beans) that I actually had only in high end restaurants that took their coffee seriously enough (richer in body, nutty and caramel flavour first) and more "3rd wave" espressos I had in specialty coffee bar, with less body higher acidity and more fruity flavours. I'm probably more intrested in the latter, because I feel it would be more fun, but I'd be disappointed if I had to cut off the other end of the spectrum entirely.
Something that is not clear to me is why when you make a "choice" in your espresso grinding setup / process, all the other step sgould follow in the same direction.
To me it seems that if you buy flat burr grinder then it's implied upgrading SSP Unimodal v2 in order to do turbo shots with light roast.
What If i generally like clarity a little bit more (so I dive into the macro category of flat burss) but then I want to stay with SSP HU and do a traditional espresso at 9 bar? I should be able do to it as well and have mostly a "classic" espresso with a little le body and slightly more clarity then what I could've gotten if I decided to buy conical.
I'm not saying that the above is what I'm aiming for, but I think I should gauge the bigger and more expensive choices against my slightly preferences and then, in a second moment, work out the details.
Unfortunately we're still discussing me dumping 2k over gear while never having hold a portafilter in my entire life, and there are no painless workaround.
About the niche: beside the conical vs flat, It's not possibile to dose into the portafilter (I do want that) and despite not searching very deeply, I couldn't find a suitable purchase option.
Since you guys have now steered me back to SD, my options are the following:
DF64P
Eureka Oro SD (But I need to understand if I can add a fork to grind into portafilter)
Ceado E5SD
This if I don't muster the resolve to buy the P64
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Quester
Once you are used to it, pouring and weighing a dose of beans (from a smaller bag, anyway) takes a negligible amount of time. I can create individual doses (in small stainless shot glasses) faster than I can with my Lyn Weber bean counter.
The other advantage for people looking to improve their cup is removing obvious bad beans--like quakers and roast defects. Lance Hedrick has a recent video on this topic.
The other advantage for people looking to improve their cup is removing obvious bad beans--like quakers and roast defects. Lance Hedrick has a recent video on this topic.
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JB90068
- Supporter ❤
First opinion that I'll offer is that not all conicals are alike. What I mean by that is that there are some that are more of a hybrid and bridge the gap between a traditional conical and a flat. This is where perhaps the HG-2 is a worthwhile consideration. I have a Key which has the same burrs as the HG-2. I also have an EG-1 and have played with an NZ. In my not so objective and limited experience, the Key offers shots that are cleaner than the NZ and closer to the EG-1.
You mentioned that you are considering an Oro SD. This really nothing more than a cosmetically altered Mignon XL which I used to own. This is an ok grinder, but it won't offer you the flavor separation that an HG-2 will. I wish that I had some experience using a DF64 so I could offer a firsthand comparison. Let's put it this way, my son is a few steps further down the path than you and I'm buying him a DF64 when the new variable speed version becomes available. These are just my opinions and they may or may not have any merit to you.
You mentioned that you are considering an Oro SD. This really nothing more than a cosmetically altered Mignon XL which I used to own. This is an ok grinder, but it won't offer you the flavor separation that an HG-2 will. I wish that I had some experience using a DF64 so I could offer a firsthand comparison. Let's put it this way, my son is a few steps further down the path than you and I'm buying him a DF64 when the new variable speed version becomes available. These are just my opinions and they may or may not have any merit to you.
Old baristas never die. They just become over extracted.
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