So, while my Mazzer Mini Manual/Doser grinder has been reliable for more than 14 years now, it is apparently hopelessly obsolete, what with the supposedly excessive retention, lack of single dose and inconsistencies in grind and delivery. Oh and those 58mm burrs! So (!) last decade!

I may be a little ironic here, but bear with me - coming back to HB after many years of blissful ignorance can be quite a shock!

I do not doubt that the market for home equipment has progressed, and very knowledgeable people here have clearly found more appropriate work flows for the home environment.

My 7 year old Nuova Simonelli Oscar II (no OPV, the horror!) is nearing massive overhaul or replacement too, and it is easy to see where I might be able to improve on the brewing experience in the brewer area. I would probably be looking at a MaraX or the like.

But my question is:
What would be a worthwhile upgrade from my stock Mazzer Mini Manual? Assuming that the Mini would ACTUALLY hold me back from getting proper enjoyment from a better espresso machine when it becomes time to replace the Oscar.
I don't want to go up (much) in size, e.g. something like a Super Jolly seems way too large for our kitchen.


Notes:
A) I have been happily Stockfleth'ing my topped up baskets and hitting good consistency of 20g weight in my 20g VST basket (confirmed by weighing my portafilter over several sessions).
B) I do see that I can avoid channeling by doing WDT, but with Oscar&Mini it did not give a discernible difference in flavor to the espresso.
C) It is important to me to be able to churn out milky drinks at a pace when we have people over. I brew for minimum 3 people at once at least once a day and often up to 12 at the fastest possible clip, so the old school doser has worked well for me in this respect. Seems like I am in the minority.
D) I have considered upgrading burrs and carriers to 64mm, but this seems to carry draw backs in reliability and risk of stalling?


Thoughts?

A df64 with SSP Unimodal or cast LS burrs would be my suggestion for a cost effective improvement that single doses much easier than the mini...

I didn't read what you wanted to improve in your espresso. It sounds like you'd be happy using the coffees you have been with the gear and techniques that are working for you.

The Mazzer is a very solid grinder for classic espresso. It will run forever in home use, perhaps with a very occasional change of inexpensive burrs. Dosers aren't very popular with grind-on-demand replacing them in many settings. Picking among them would, for me, depend on the style of espresso you enjoy. A lot of the flat-burr hype is around using "filter" roast coffee in an espresso machine, making a drink that is very different than the classic espresso shot. There seems to be a growing contingent that is swinging back to conical grinders or specific flat burr sets for classic espresso.

Primacog wrote:A df64 with SSP Unimodal or cast LS burrs would be my suggestion for a cost effective improvement that single doses much easier than the mini...

Thank you, Primacog! How is your impression of using single dose workflow for serving guests? Let's say 6-10 cappuccini in quick succession?

From your description it doesn't sound like you need to change your equipment. The Mini is still a good grinder. So is the Oscar II (just add an OPV, cheap and easy fix).

I'm not sure it's cost effective to buy new burr carriers, but it is nice to have more burr options for 64mm. I've been using a Mazzer Mini E for years now with SSP burrs (worthwhile for light roasts or even filter) and it hasn't stalled even once.

One advantage of single dosing compared to using a doser would be that you could dose accurately. As long as you grind while pulling the next shot it doesn't need to slow you down. But I think steaming on a Mara X is a lot slower than on the Oscar II.

Well it will be slower than using a hopper fed grinder like the mini but not unduly so i believe if you use a bean cellar. BTW it's dangerous being on this forum - I stayed away for nearly a decade and was last back in the days when titan conical grinders ruled in this forum, and as soon as I got back I started buying grinders, a new machine etc

Jeff wrote:I didn't read what you wanted to improve in your espresso. It sounds like you'd be happy using the coffees you have been with the gear and techniques that are working for you.

The Mazzer is a very solid grinder for classic espresso. It will run forever in home use, perhaps with a very occasional change of inexpensive burrs. Dosers aren't very popular with grind-on-demand replacing them in many settings. Picking among them would, for me, depend on the style of espresso you enjoy. A lot of the flat-burr hype is around using "filter" roast coffee in an espresso machine, making a drink that is very different than the classic espresso shot. There seems to be a growing contingent that is swinging back to conical grinders or specific flat burr sets for classic espresso.

Well, Jeff, a lot to consider in your input here, thanks! Living in Denmark, the beans I use are literally Scandinavian roasts from companies like Coffee Collective or La Cabra. Although the house favourite for espresso is a single origin roasted somewhat darker for espresso that for filter. The roaster is called Stiller's Coffee. Would still classify his 'espresso roast' as light-medium compared to classic Italian or US espressos that I have had. Certainly lighter that my favourite beans tried at Intelligenzia (Chicago) or Caffè Mauro (Reggia Calabria, Italy).

I am cognisant that my grinder/machine combo means that
I am stuck with a very narrow window for brew ratio, but yes, you're right: It has worked fine for me over a good period of time. The coffee can always be dialled in to taste rounded and delicious, if not as complex as the beans' potential...

Case in point: I have tasted my favourite coffe prepared on Stiller's own big bucks setup, and they do draw out more juicy plum flavour and some more sweetness.
Having more room to play with brew ratio than afforded by a no-OPV Oscar2 might get me closer to that, but I wonder if the Mazzer Mini would be the weakest link. Or if current Mignon or Sette machines would only be better in terms of ease of use. Are they really perceivably better at grinding the beans?

Jonk wrote:From your description it doesn't sound like you need to change your equipment. The Mini is still a good grinder. So is the Oscar II (just add an OPV, cheap and easy fix).

I'm not sure it's cost effective to buy new burr carriers, but it is nice to have more burr options for 64mm. I've been using a Mazzer Mini E for years now with SSP burrs (worthwhile for light roasts or even filter) and it hasn't stalled even once.

One advantage of single dosing compared to using a doser would be that you could dose accurately. As long as you grind while pulling the next shot it doesn't need to slow you down. But I think steaming on a Mara X is a lot slower than on the Oscar II.

Jonk - way to talk a guy out if his Gear Acquisition Syndrome! I agree that one should be cautious of diminishing returns.
That's what had me thinking if I was being overstimulated by all the neat features of modern grinders.

If I think that I can continue living with the inconveniences of a manual doser, the question becomes - are other burr setups MUCH better suited for light-medium espressos ( I have tended towards 1:2.5 or 1:3 brew ratios) and the same beans for milky drinks..?


The espresso machine discussion we can pick up another day , Oscar is a great steamer, that's for sure!

Thanks for a considerate response.

Primacog wrote:Well it will be slower than using a hopper fed grinder like the mini but not unduly so i believe if you use a bean cellar. BTW it's dangerous being on this forum - I stayed away for nearly a decade and was last back in the days when titan conical grinders ruled in this forum, and as soon as I got back I started buying grinders, a new machine etc

Good guidance! Thanks, both regarding workflow and gear 'needs'

I subscribe to Coffee Collective and have to La Cabra in the past. Only so much coffee I can drink in a month!

My guess is that being able to drop your brew pressure to around 6 bars will make a significant difference in the cup. Patrik Rolf (April) just put out a video on the P100 where he mentioned that they pull their roasts around 1:3 ratio on a 6-bar flat profile, adding another professional's opinion on moving to lower pressures.

I'd try that first, before spending on another grinder.

I don't think that the Eureka or Batatza grinders are going to gain you a lot over what you have. At a modest price, you might consider the Option-O Lagom Mini. I'm impressed by mine, getting good clarity from it. It isn't a grinder intended for turning out more than a few cups at a time.

I've had a DF64 which spins 64 mm SJ-style burrs. They're not a "refined" grinder and seemingly vary widely on how well a specific unit can be aligned. I don't know much about the similar Asian imports in either 64 or 83 mm sizes. 83 mm doesn't seem to have the range of burr options as 64 or 98 mm (yet?). I like the Option-O Lagom P64 with some of the burr choices, but it is getting pretty expensive.