JaBK wrote:are other burr setups MUCH better suited for light-medium espresso

In my experience - yes. I have only used the 64mm version, but there's a 58mm version of the brewing burrs from SSP as well that should greatly improve espresso if you use beans from La Cabra. It's a whopping $195 (plus whatever tax and import charges you might be charged) but still the cheapest option for that style of burr.

As a bonus you can brew very clear pour over if you like (yes - I've used a Mazzer Mini for that purpose and it works fine in my opinion), even with darker roasts if you want. The big drawback for me is that medium or darker espresso tastes awful with those burrs no matter what I do.

A more versatile burrset is in my opinion the new cast version Primacog mentions. Personally I prefer light roast espresso with the other set, but the cool thing with the cast version is that any roast level works*. It's not currently available in 58mm, but a machined clone is being developed by Sworksdesign. Will it have the same flavor profile? Only time will tell.

*in particular dark roasts, that do well both with or without milk.

Sooner or later I'll likely replace the Mini, but I'm waiting for something more refined than the DF64 without breaking the bank. Perhaps the upcoming DF64S or Timemore Sculptor 064? There has been several contenders so far that all turned out to have some critical flaw. In the meantime a brush and a bit of patience gets the job done

Jeff wrote:I subscribe to Coffee Collective and have to La Cabra in the past. Only so much coffee I can drink in a month!

My guess is that being able to drop your brew pressure to around 6 bars will make a significant difference in the cup. Patrik Rolf (April) just put out a video on the P100 where he mentioned that they pull their roasts around 1:3 ratio on a 6-bar flat profile, adding another professional's opinion on moving to lower pressures.

I'd try that first, before spending on another grinder.

I don't think that the Eureka or Batatza grinders are going to gain you a lot over what you have. At a modest price, you might consider the Option-O Lagom Mini. I'm impressed by mine, getting good clarity from it. It isn't a grinder intended for turning out more than a few cups at a time.

I've had a DF64 which spins 64 mm SJ-style burrs. They're not a "refined" grinder and seemingly vary widely on how well a specific unit can be aligned. I don't know much about the similar Asian imports in either 64 or 83 mm sizes. 83 mm doesn't seem to have the range of burr options as 64 or 98 mm (yet?). I like the Option-O Lagom P64 with some of the burr choices, but it is getting pretty expensive.

Awesome! We're really proud of the attention afforded Danish roasters abroad. I move between different brew methods for a variety of local roasts with my Fellow Ode (v60, aeropress, french press), while we tend to stick with a single coffee for espresso and espresso related beverages over longer periods.

Used to be happy about HasBean from the UK (before Brexit, ) but have tested out the range from Stiller's Coffee, and prefer their "04 espresso" as a great all rounder. Costa Rica, San Isidro, red honey process. Their "06" is my favourite for straight espresso, but less compatible with milk.
The do all of their beans in filter and espresso specific roasts.

Good pointers on lower pressure for the espressos. That looks super interesting.


If Option-O or DF64 are an appreciable improvement, how about Eureka Atom 65 or 70, they are grind on demand with large burrs and low retention it seems?

In either of these cases, I would probably stick with Mini and jump to the big leagues later, instead of concerning myself with the Sette and Mignon models.

Jonk wrote:In my experience - yes. I have only used the 64mm version, but there's a 58mm version of the brewing burrs from SSP as well that should greatly improve espresso if you use beans from La Cabra. It's a whopping $195 (plus whatever tax and import charges you might be charged) but still the cheapest option for that style of burr.

As a bonus you can brew very clear pour over if you like (yes - I've used a Mazzer Mini for that purpose and it works fine in my opinion), even with darker roasts if you want. The big drawback for me is that medium or darker espresso tastes awful with those burrs no matter what I do.

A more versatile burrset is in my opinion the new cast version Primacog mentions. Personally I prefer light roast espresso with the other set, but the cool thing with the cast version is that any roast level works*. It's not currently available in 58mm, but a machined clone is being developed by Sworksdesign. Will it have the same flavor profile? Only time will tell.

*in particular dark roasts, that do well both with or without milk.

Sooner or later I'll likely replace the Mini, but I'm waiting for something more refined than the DF64 without breaking the bank. Perhaps the upcoming DF64S or Timemore Sculptor 064? There has been several contenders so far that all turned out to have some critical flaw. In the meantime a brush and a bit of patience gets the job done

Ooh, 58mm SSP's. Intriguing pricewise they may be similar to a burr carrier upgrade and some regular Super Jolly burrs, as far as I can tell.
Unless I can find a really cheap donor SJ or mini-e.... With some burr carriers in good nick.


Interesting how grinders keep evolving!

Yes, those big single dose Option-Os look cool. How about Niche Zero?

I have a Niche Zero as well, these days mostly because it's super convenient to use. It does better than a Mazzer Mini with stock burrs in my opinion, up to the darker side of light if that makes sense though the very lightest of roasts are no fun to work with.

But if you already have an Ode (with stock V1/1.1 burrs?) my advice would be to try out one of the 64mm SSP burrs in it and see if you like what they do. In the short term it kind of works for espresso. The benefit would be that you can then get a dedicated 64mm espresso grinder and have access to more burr options that you can swap with whatever you use in the Ode. Or if you don't like what the SSP burrs do for espresso, you'll at least have upgraded the filter grinder.

Continuing the workflow question, you mention a minimum of three and frequently up to twelve drinks back to back.

Single dose grinders are not only less suited to this in workflow, many of them are also quite slow. (In my limited experiences, the Niche is something of an exception to both of these objections.) Additionally, the staling that drives the need to purge coffee in grinders that have less than zero retention does not present the same concern when you are doing multiple shots in quick succession. As many have mentioned above, you may not need anything new. Very much agree the Mignon series or Baratzas will not offer big improvements.

A hopper-fed on-demand grinder would make sense to me. Atom series may be the most popular, but in the UK forums a lot of people love their Fiorenzatos. And the F4 and F64 have ssp burrs standard at competitive prices. Not as popular, but Ceado E37S and E37J have been reliably good in my experience.

Otherwise, for upgrading your existing grinder, yes, ssp burrs were a very worthwhile upgrade for me (on a E37S) with notable improvements in the cup. Considering that many of your coffees are on the lighter side, they may be a good spend for you, too.

Thanks for these suggestions. Yes, I may as well make sure that any options are serious steps up, if I do upgrade. And personally, I am sure that the hopper would be less stressful/distracting to work with.

Jonk wrote:I have a Niche Zero as well, these days mostly because it's super convenient to use. It does better than a Mazzer Mini with stock burrs in my opinion, up to the darker side of light if that makes sense though the very lightest of roasts are no fun to work with.

But if you already have an Ode (with stock V1/1.1 burrs?) my advice would be to try out one of the 64mm SSP burrs in it and see if you like what they do. In the short term it kind of works for espresso. The benefit would be that you can then get a dedicated 64mm espresso grinder and have access to more burr options that you can swap with whatever you use in the Ode. Or if you don't like what the SSP burrs do for espresso, you'll at least have upgraded the filter grinder.

Yes, my Ode is a v1.1, I think. I think I will let it remain my brew grinder, it doesn't feel practical for espresso to me. But the SSP burrs are definitely interesting as a concept. I like the idea of trying the flavor in espresso with Ode/SSP on a shorter term basis.

I went from a Mazzer Mini to a DF64 a little more than a year ago. My primary motivations were less bean waste and the ability to switch beans on a per shot basis (my wife likes classic espresso, I like to experiment with a variety). Moving to the DF64 achieved both of those but also resulted in a very noticeable improvement in the cup (I was using an HX E61 at the time).

As an aside, I was also able to sell my Mini and offset ~80% of the purchase price of the DF64, so I felt that the overall bang-for-the-buck was huge.

Great to hear, Graymatters. I tend to do the experimentation with my different non-espresso brew setups, but can see the benefit in your case.

The resale of the Mini is a very good point. I would not have too high expectations, though.

It seems the DF64 needs a few mods to be optimal? Has this been your experience?

Graymatters wrote:I went from a Mazzer Mini to a DF64 a little more than a year ago. My primary motivations were less bean waste and the ability to switch beans on a per shot basis (my wife likes classic espresso, I like to experiment with a variety). Moving to the DF64 achieved both of those but also resulted in a very noticeable improvement in the cup (I was using an HX E61 at the time).

As an aside, I was also able to sell my Mini and offset ~80% of the purchase price of the DF64, so I felt that the overall bang-for-the-buck was huge.

Great to hear, Graymatters. I tend to do the experimentation with my different non-espresso brew setups, but can see the benefit in your case.

The resale of the Mini is a very good point. I would not have too high expectations, though.

It seems the DF64 needs a few mods to be optimal? Has this been your experience?