Rocket Boxer 1 Group + Mahlkonig E65S

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Thehomebrewcoffee

#1: Post by Thehomebrewcoffee »

Hello, I am building a new cottage setup and would like your opinion on what I should look at.

TLDR; Propose other combinations of equal retail value. Swap both machine and grinder or just one.

I have explored many options by myself but I'm sure the community here has a lot more to offer and for me to explore. After lots of debate, I am most keen on the rocket boxer ( for its plumb ability and looks) paired with the mahlkonig e65s for its looks, ease of use, and brand reputation.

The combination of the two costs about $9,200 CAD OR $7,500 USD please keep it very close to this budget or less.

Open to all suggestions

Thanks for your time!
Home Brew Coffee - Stereo Coffee Roasters - Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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Jeff
Team HB

#2: Post by Jeff »

Can I ask a couple questions to get people headed down a reasonable direction?

The Boxer 1 is a rather unique starting point. What draws you to it?

Why do you think the espresso workflow for an E65S is viable for home use?

Both of your choices seem to me to be focused on form. How important is in-cup performance to you in comparison?

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Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster)

#3: Post by Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster) »

Hi jeff, thanks again for your input, always appreciated it.

The machine:

Firstly the individual who is funding this build out has an affinity to the brand, is wanting non e61, loves the look, plumbing aspect and is confident in the brands ability to create adequate in cup performance.

As for the grinder:

The go to grinder was at first the ceado e37s again because of affinity to the brand owning a e5p but after a visit to I drink coffee the look, feel, and user experience of the e65s was superb and this swung the votes to the e65s as its little brother the x54 was not of interest due to its small burrs and Chinese production. Other grinders previously considered included the eureka atom and the ceado e37s. Otherwise nothing else has been considered.
Thanks
Home Brew Coffee - Stereo Coffee Roasters - Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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Jeff
Team HB

#4: Post by Jeff »

What follows is personal opinion, on several options that I have not personally used. So take it as you will.

TL;DR -- La Marzocco Linea Mini and a Lagom P100

It seems that your client is more interested in appearance than function. They might have decided, for example, that they want something "better" than an in-wall Miele unit. Unless you're willing to educate them on the craft of espresso, you're probably best off just taking what they feel comfortable with. Unless they convince themselves, any other options will always be "wish I had" for them. With a US$7,500 budget there are many options I'd enjoy myself, but their attraction is based on experience with the craft of espresso, not showroom or kitchen appeal.

If I were given either of the choices in the first post, for me, my choice of coffees, my desires in the cup, I'd immediately put them up for sale, without even opening the box.

Why?

Rocket Boxer -- It's a $4,600 HX. That kills it right there for me. I could probably pull better shots more consistently from my Anita with the EricS thermometry for $3,000 less. Past that, it's a big, commercial machine that seems to require 240 V and has a boiler over 8 L to heat up and keep hot. A plumb-in machine for a "cottage" suggests that not only will a water treatment system be required, but that a 100% reliable, automatic shut-off is even more critical if someone isn't there all the time.

Mahlkonig E65S -- Agreed, Mahlkonig has a great reputation for commercial grinders, where speed and reliability through 1,000s of kg of beans (literally "tons") are important in a cafe setting. Retention isn't a problem when you're puling dozens of shots with the same settings and beans hour after hour. With the exception of now-discontinued "legendary" burrs from Mahlkonig, my opinion is that they are good, but not exceptional.

Why LM Linea Mini and P100?

Of the luxury machines, my guess is that something like a Londinium would get the same "red X" as an E61 with its classic appearance. The reports of issues with the VA Prima One in threads here rule it out for me, at least until those reports die back to the reasonable occasional report. Within the budget, at least in my eyes, that leaves the LM Linea Mini. Support from La Marzocco Home seems to be very strong, with La Marzocco service techs available throughout the world. Most of what I read from owners is very positive about the machine, without many recurring problems. All machines have their issues. The question comes down to if those issues severely impact your enjoyment of the machine and the espresso.

For me, I don't see the advantage of a hopper-fed grinder for home use of a few shots in a session, even if you don't regularly change grind or beans. I don't think that a Niche Zero would fit your client's perception of a great grinder, even if it would likely be sufficient in terms of quality. I have a Bentwood on order (there are only a couple dozen in the US), but won't be able to comment meaningfully on it until I've had it for a while. Down to the current crop of modern flats with visual appeal, you've got the Lagom P64, P100, and then several "unobtanium" grinders. Depending on your client's expectations and choice of beans, the P64 may be more than sufficient. Burr selection will depend on their tastes, as some tend to favor low-acidity, full-bodied, classic espresso styles and some seem to favor higher-acidity, longer ratio, light-roast styles. Modern flats seem to be more "tweaky" for dial-in than classic flats or conicals. As such, a modern flat may not be a good choice for your client.

Something like a Eureka that visually or otherwise appealed to your client might be another good choice. Clive Coffee recently introduced a the LUCCA 75 which apparently has a "system" that incorporates repeatable grind adjustments, including a service for coffee delivery that integrates with those grind systems. I have no personal experience with it, but it may be something that appeals to your client. Except for a run of grinders with 1 mm too-long bolts (which was acknowledged and resolved), Eureka grinders seem to be reliable, robust, and have a strong following here.

baldheadracing
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#5: Post by baldheadracing »

Just an aside: The very-well-regarded La Marzocco Home in the USA does not serve Canada. However, as the OP has visited there, note that idrinkcoffee sells La Marzocco.

Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster)

#6: Post by Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster) »

Love this info jeff thanks for the ideas, he is particularly avoiding the linea mini as it's the obvious choice, as for grinder though both could be a good fit although he is more focused on entertaining than single dosing as he also has a pavoni on sight for when it's just him at the cottage.
Home Brew Coffee - Stereo Coffee Roasters - Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster)

#7: Post by Thehomebrewcoffee (original poster) »

Hey jeff so I went back with this info, and he's now loving the idea of the Londinium. Spring lever could be the answer let's go down that rabbit whole. He's looking at the r24 is there any other machines he should consider? He's also planning on replacing his pavoni with the odyssey once it's out and proven
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Cael_Coffee

#8: Post by Cael_Coffee »

Hey guys,

I might be said client.... I'd like to look into what would be potentially a 'god setup', If it doesn't work out and I end up moving my home machine setup then so be it. But who doesn't like to look at some dream machines.

I've had my Cellini for over 8 years now and have recently got a Pavoni to play around with the lever side of things, roast all my beans. Very much head deep into this hobby... So yea I'm curious what's out there for a different standalone setup.

The Cremina SL came to mind, love the Cremina... But it's a pretty small machine in comparison. The Londinium might be an interesting fit as I feel like going outside of the lever world at this price range you're not looking at to many options. The Boxer is ridiculous for home use for sure, the Linea would be more expensive and to be honest not sure if it's totally justified. And I can't go through a coffee instagram without seeing someone with a Linea so it's killed any interest. The Verve coulda been a nice machine but we'll see what happens to this new edition. I agree, the Prima seems to have quite a bit of faults.

Let me know any options or maybe this Londinium R24 is all I should be looking at. I have 2 Ceado's, maybe pair this with a E37?