drgary wrote:For lever machines, should one stick to an Elektra or Ponte Vecchio or would other common brands offer similar results in the cup?

I suspect it will depend on how much of a control freak you are. Sadly...I think I am one and only like the all manual lever machines because they give me the greatest control possible. I LOVE the aesthetics of the Elektra, but they only offer the spring-loaded lever, so until they come up with an all manual machine, I will pass on it.

As I mentioned on another thread, my first machine was a La Riviera spring loaded beauty I bought 30 years ago and still have...but I'm looking to convert it to an all manual drive. My second machine is a La Pavoni Europiccola and I am very happy with it. I've had it for about 10 years. I grind fine...somewhere between espresso and Turkish...and tamp hard by putting the basket down on the table and then using all my weight on it in 3 different spins of the basket. This helps provide uniformity of pressure. The tampers I use have handles of my own design that are long enough to fit into the palm of my hand so that all the force of the tamp goes into my palm...not my fingers. After tamping lots of shots, my fingers aren't tired or sore:





So anyway...preference is a strange beast and it just depends on what you like after trying various options...I suspect.

That's a fascinating post, especially regarding your grind and tamp technique! I'm actually about to walk over to North Beach in San Francisco, where there's a shop owned by the first importer of La Pavoni machines. They're really into lever machines, and why not go there and learn?

OH...that would be Thomas Cara, I'll bet. That's where I got my La Riviera so many years ago...and Chris is the person I've been talking with about converting it to an all manual. It's a great shop, in a great location!

Yesterday I adopted an Italian street urchin, kinda burned out but with lots of promise! She's an Isomac Amica. I found her down on her luck on eBay. This Italian mama couldn't tell whether she was hot or cold. The thermostats on Amicas were notoriously unreliable, so she seems to have overheated and fried her inner connections. But then those are the kinda folks I help get it back on their feet! She's culturally challenged, wired for 220v European current and still lives in the 60s (don't so many still?) ... anyway, I'm gonna help her get acclimated to these shores with larger gauge re-wiring for 120v and will bring her into the 21st century with PID (computer controls). I don't like to overreach with crisis cases like this, so I'm going to refer her to a specialist for brief, solution-focused therapy -- he'll get a kick out of this. I called Chris Coffee and asked if they PID Amicas, so they referred me to Dave Blane of Hitechespresso.com http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V ... id=dave713. I'll keep you all posted about her makeover.

Flush with the excitement of my new acquisition, I strolled over to Thomas E. Cara, Ltd., in San Francisco's North Beach, and got acquainted the Chris Cara, Thomas's son and the current proprietor. As I may have written earlier, his dad was the first to import La Pavoni espresso machines to the West Coast. I'm sure many of you know about these folks. Anyway, I walked in there eyes wide at the chrome and brass beauty of those machines and some E61s similar to my new friend. There was a back shelf with non-functioning collector's machines I would love to know more about. But checking out the smooth action and fine machining of those beauties reminded me of the fine Italian craftsmanship in their sports cars and motorcycles. I chatted with Chris and his buddy Henry, who'd met his wife when his La Pavoni failed and he had to take it to Chris for repairs. We only had half an hour, but I asked if I could return, take some pictures to share on this site and write something a bit more extensive. After a little cajoling, Chris welcomed my idea. I'm going to post a new thread on the lever machine forum to gather questions any of you want me to ask him.

Okay ... time to go out front and wait for my Amica to be delivered!

Hey Gary-- Thanks for this update! I'll look forward to your refurb adventure and to seeing lots and lots of photos of your explorations!

Search strategy

Before searching for the espresso machine I eventually bought for upgrade, I started following a strategy that some of you may find helpful. I like to buy quality without overspending, and I ended up getting lots of bang for my buck by shopping in web markets instead of just buying new or refurb. If I had more money to spare, I would probably go for something higher end, but I think I'll be extremely happy with my new purchase. I well know, now, that the espresso machine, even the grinder, can't save one from bad technique or bad coffee, but I've wanted good enough equipment that my espresso setup isn't an undue hindrance.

My search strategy began, of course, with narrowing down the kind of machine I wanted. I was headed toward an E61 HX (heat exchanger) machine before posting a thread asking whether to consider lever too. The reasons for E61 HX were: 1) sufficient quality to more often achieve excellent results; 2) forgiving to those with less than expert technique; 3) many competing models to choose from manufactured from an expired patent, so good value for the money; 4) HX for lower cost and smaller footprint in my small kitchen than a double boiler machine or one that needs to be plumbed in; 5) most people who buy the next level up from my pre-starter equipment get a Silvia or Gaggia or Lelit or something like that. I wanted to leapfrog a step to avoid early onset upgradeitis; 6) I probably wanted to PID to control what's obviously a frustrating heat regulation variable; 7) they're just so cool looking!

As I inquired a bit about lever machines, I discovered that with more user control capability in many of these, they may be more demanding of technique, which at this stage of my learning curve is not something I preferred. I'm still curious about lever machines, which is why I approached Chris Cara, and at some point I may want a lever with a small footprint, perhaps for my office. But one major upgrade at a time for now!

So I started searching the popular online marketplaces for used things. Since I was becoming most acquainted with E61, I went through this site, CoffeeGeek, and the sites of the major respectable dealers and came up with a list of current and discontinued models. I also looked at current or past new prices and tracked selling prices on eBay, and if I found an interesting machine, I started reading its reviews and comparisons between it and other machines on SeattleCoffeeGear.com. One of the most useful things I did was create the list of machine brands and names. This isn't unlike doing a keyword advertising campaign, but in this case, it's the reverse, I was keyword shopping. Here's my list of E61 and similar machines that some of you on a similar hunt may find useful. It may include some double boiler machines, but I compiled it when I was honing in on E61, similar or better.

Please feel free to add, comment, alphabetize, offer your 2 cents! ☺

- Quick Mill Alexia/Anita (I also listed Vetrano and Andreja in case I found a great deal)
- Isomac Tea II/Mondiale/Alba/Millenium II/Zaffiro/Amica (the one I bought, and I first became better acquainted with that machine when reading about how to PID one on CoffeeGeek)
- Fiorenzato Bricoletta/Colombino
- Pasquini Livia 90. Livietta not as well reviewed. (See earlier in this thread for Jim Shulman's "take" on different shot clarity with Pasquini and Bezzera machines. Some other reviewers don't like the build quality of these machines compared to brands like Isomac or Quick Mill.
- Vibiemme Domobar and Domobar Junior
- A La Vittoria la Valentina
- Laranzato Casa
- Brasilia Gabriella
- La Pavoni Cuadra
- ECM Rocket Cellini/Rocket Espresso Giotto Premium II
Higher end machines like:
- La Cimbali Junior CT1
- Salvatore Semi-Automatic
- Elektra T1/A3, but these are pricier (and I'm sure worth it!)

Happy hunting for those of you who can use this list! So here's my upgrade, side by side. The Amica doesn't have its components fully assembled yet -- that's in the second image, where I feature a beauty shot of her. But the side-by-side comparison between the Amica and my Saeco consumer machine is quite stunning!



Okay, here's the beauty shot!

I know nothing about real pump machines of the class you're now in, and only a little about a few old-fashioned home levers. But I have learned to milk the most out of lower-end pump machines, and regardless the espresso you'll get from a lever is different. In fact, its a completely different experience brewing with the lever. So keep one in mind, as you said - a Caravel, for example, would be the perfect small-footprint, highly-controllable companion to your E61 kit.

BTW, I will need to research a little about using the paper filters - is it just cut to fit into the PF, then brew as usual?

PC

Jack:

I look forward to trying a lever-pulled espresso here and there from skilled baristas. Thanks for the suggestion about something like a Caravel. About the paper filters, I keep it simpler than that and simply buy number 1 size Melitta filter pack. At home, with enough clearance in my new machine, I'll pull the shot into a cup with the filter inserted. Espresso has such fine particles it tends to clog the paper if left to drip into the cup from there, so I fold the paper and squeeze it downward with a spoon to extract the espresso. With a properly brewed espresso, the flavor is still intense, complex and very pleasing. Then, of course, there are always pods!

I second the advice of Jack on acquiring small open boiler lever machine; for me it was just after six months of use of serious pump machine that I wanted to try levers. I was initially drawn into the world of these small machines like Caravel, La Peppina, Brunella and others, yet I was thinking somewhat in pump world terms and making comparison to the bigger levers like Cremina, assuming that small open boilers aren't capable to make real espresso or similar shots to them. Yet it is completely wrong assumption!

Ciao Gary,

Last time I visited the Thomas Cara shop, I recall Chris had a Vibiemme Domobar, which took me by surprise. If he still sells those, you might want to ask if he also works on them. This could be advantageous if you plan to keep your machine a long time -- a lot of us who are not into DIY have to crate & ship long distances to a vendor or service center. That alone should not determine one's buying choice, but if I knew someone in my area who could service a machine I already liked, of course I would factor it in.

Happy Brewing,
Wayne