I agree that the dealer should completely handle this. I'd insist on a brand new replacement machine, and dealer-paid shipping for return of the defective machine. And if they balk at it, go right to the credit card company and file a claim to reverse the payment (or with PayPal, etc.). Then I would never purchase from that dealer again. And I'd ask up front what the process is if a machine arrives with any defects from the next vendor. I'd also contact the CEOs via certified mail of both the seller and the manufacturer to let them know about this mess of a situation they caused. A defective unit from the factory, and a 'fix it yourself' policy from the seller.

I don't know the details of Consumer Law in the USA, but in most of the rest of the world the seller is obliged to repair or replace at the sellers cost. This should be included in the statutory warranty.

Alan

I agree with posts above. If the machine was a year or two old, it's not unreasonable to attempt a repair. But for a brand new machine in this price range, the dealer should send you a new replacement machine and pay to ship the old one back. It was DOA.

It's situations like this that if possible should make the vendor's location an important consideration when making a purchase. I bought my Duetto from Great Infusions in Santa Cruz. Although it is about 60 miles from my home, it was much simpler driving down the coast a bit when I had a problem then it would be shipping back and forth.

One advantage of doing it yourself (if you have the aptitude and Bazzera is willing to back you) is that you get familiarity with the internals while under warrantee.

Next time something happens (with luck years after warrantee is over) you will be very familiar with the internals.

I've decided to return the machine. Thanks for the input here. I really needed to confirm my gut feelings on not wanting to perform the repair myself after spending so much and it arriving defective. The vendor responded to my request and is arranging pick up with a full refund, so they're doing right by me.

chipman wrote:It's situations like this that should make the vendor's location an important consideration when making a purchase.

For sure, but sadly, there are no vendors even close to me that sell this level of espresso machines. The closest (4hrs) is Prima in Louisville.

tglodjo wrote:The vendor responded to my request and is arranging pick up with a full refund, so they're doing right by me.

Yes they are - and your vendor deserves our support! I wish the vendor from whom I bought a top quality machine would have been so responsive to the squealing OPV.

I finally drove the 3 month old machine to my dealer in another state after sending videos that clearly documented the noise...and in the end, I was told to ignore it. I sent a video link to the manufacturer, who simply called the dealer and told him to deal with it. Of course, it didn't squeal while I was there with it - but it was on reservoir and it's plumbed at home (which the dealer knew and dismissed - he may have been right, but he could have hooked it up on the spot). He took off the case and played around inside a bit because I'd gone to the trouble of driving it there, but I basically got lip service and it was clear that he didn't think this was a problem worth doing anything about.

Of course, it didn't squeal at home for the first few days afterward, but it started again within a week. No offer was made to replace the OPV or do anything else. I was told to change water line pressure, descale, reduce the brew pressure etc etc when the correct and only appropriate response (especially after doing all the things he told me to do for a month +) would have been "Let us replace the OPV for you - a brand new machine like that shouldn't be making that noise". And I didn't replace it myself because I didn't trust that I wouldn't be told I'd violated the warranty if something else went wrong. Fortunately, a squealing OPV appears to be common & seems to cause no harm. But I wish I'd bought that machine from your dealer.

Water over the dam may be gone, but it's not forgotten. If you love your dealer, tell him!!

Hello:

tglodjo wrote: ... vendor responded to my request and is arranging pick up with a full refund, so they're doing ...

... the right thing. The thing any reputable vendor would/should do.

Depending on how it all came down, you may be willing to consider rewarding the vendor's attitude with the purchase of another, different brand machine. ie: a more reliable one, with less "cutting edge software and electronics" (after being throroughly tested).

In the end, it seems to have been an OEM issue which the vendor will have to solve on his dime and probably lose money on it.

Glad to know you got it sorted out.

Cheers,

CIV

civ wrote:In the end, it seems to have been an OEM issue

It's not an OEM issue - it's a basic design issue that won't go away until these modules are designed and manufactured for the uses to which they're put but were never originally intended. Every time I say this, I get taken to task for it - but most electronics are simply not as reliable yet as the mechanical assemblies they replace. I know of several faulty display panels on Synchronikas etc, plus a ton of trouble with La Spaziale bubble buttons and several other electronic controls and displays. I and many many others have had multiple problems with automotive electronics - all the dashboard warning lights on my BMW Z3C would light up like a Christmas tree for no reason (at least none that the dealer ever found - he replaced a lot of expensive stuff for no reason, all under warranty, until the problem stopped). CPUs destroy themselves in many serious machines after not that many years, and this is common to all equipment that exposes them to damaging energy of any kind. The high frequency energy in early electronic heliarc welders fried their boards and brains so regularly that my welding supply dealer told me not to buy one and instead sold me a Hobart Tigwave 250 for half price because he couldn't move them - people were buying the new little ones and putting up with repair after repair despite his honest warnings.

Electronics don't mix well with heat, water and vibration. LCD displays date back to the early '70s, when they were introduced in watches (Bulova and Gruen, as I recall) and then TI calculators a few years later. The only major differences in today's displays are that they're backlit by LEDs instead of flourescent material (yes, all "LED" TVs etc are actually LCD displays with LED backlighting) and that they're potted in better plastics. Adding touch sensors hasn't fixed the inherent flaws - it's added another failure prone assembly. For me, the failure rate of electronic displays, controls etc is still unacceptably high (as is the likelihood that you'll have a problem with an espresso machine that's based around electronics).

And despite many dealers' advice that it's a piece of cake to replace the PID module or whatever else fails, it's usually not that simple or easy. Further, repairs like these on a new machine should be accomplished without evidence of intervention. Unless you can carry out the task & leave every screw head, bolt, nut, part, body panel etc completely unmarked and as it was before it was touched, you shouldn't be repairing a new machine. Expecting us to do it ourselves despite a warranty is both unreasonable and unrealistic, in my opinion.

Hello:

bluesman wrote:It's not an OEM issue - it's a basic design issue ...

Sorry, that is what I meant.
ie: Original equipment manufacturer deciding to use a specific technology for something it was not designed to be used.
eg: LCD touch panel in an espresso machine.

Provided you can find one that has not been run over, these days you can get a 1950's Faema Mercurio or Marte back into daily use without much hassle, just TLC, workmanship and patience.

See if you can do that 60+ years from now with one of these electronic machines.

bluesman wrote: ... most electronics are simply not as reliable yet as the mechanical assemblies they replace.
... common to all equipment that exposes them to damaging energy of any kind.
... don't mix well with heat, water and vibration.
... touch sensors ... ... another failure prone assembly.

+1 to all that.

That's why I absolutely love my ca. 2000 Cimbali D/1, practically 100% electro-mechanical although I'm rather wary of the Gicar inside. 8^/
The PID I've installed to do away with the Sirai's clacking is well out of harm's way and sees no heat, humidity or vibration.

Cheers,

CIV