baldheadracing wrote:I'd buy a $225 Silvia.

Condition is a little hard for a first-timer to determine, but if you have a ground fault (GFCI) extension cord, then you can easily check pre-purchase for the hidden and expensive failure - the heating element aging and eventually cracking/pitting so electricity shorts through the water in the boiler when the machine is fully warmed up. If the GFCI trips, then it is a $100 project machine as you have to replace the boiler on a v2 with a newer model boiler. https://www.espressocare.com/products/i ... raded-2013

Stick with classic espresso blends - they're easier to get good results with no PID.

And - grinder, grinder, grinder!

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for the input!

Yeah, that's the tough part, you never know the condition these things are in as a newbie. At least this was serviced by a local specialist in august that I trust so that should help in that regard. I probably wouldn't dare to buy one otherwise. Although I've heard these Silvias are the Jeeps of the coffee world. Reliable and easily serviceable.

If you don't mind me asking, what espresso blends would you recommend for this machine without PID? Would love to try some different ones:)

Grinder is very important, what is your opinion about the Rancilio Rocky? Other suggestions?

Jeff wrote:The most "important" things in a grinder are the burrs themselves and how well they are aligned to each other. As soon as you add in a motor, you add several components, as well as the cost of certification of an electrical appliance and support/warranty costs. That becomes a real stretch in the entry-level price range.

"According to me", I'd prefer a good hand grinder over most electric grinders I know about under around US$500-700, assuming I was only making a couple cups of coffee at a time. If I were regularly making coffee for more than two people at a time with light roast coffee, I'd have to reconsider trading off quality in the cup for convenience.

Edit: Part of that thinking is that a $300 hand grinder and $300 of great coffee probably is more rewarding than a $500 grinder and $100 of mediocre coffee.

That makes a lot of sense! I think I'll be mostly making coffee for me and my girlfriend so maybe a manual grinder will be the better choice in that case for me.

Bollski99 wrote:Thanks a lot for the input!

Yeah, that's the tough part, you never know the condition these things are in as a newbie. At least this was serviced by a local specialist in august that I trust so that should help in that regard. I probably wouldn't dare to buy one otherwise. Although I've heard these Silvias are the Jeeps of the coffee world. Reliable and easily serviceable.

If you don't mind me asking, what espresso blends would you recommend for this machine without PID? Would love to try some different ones:)

Grinder is very important, what is your opinion about the Rancilio Rocky? Other suggestions?

Jeeps are horrifically unreliable these days!

But yes, reliable and easy to service. However, there are no safeguards; no hand-holding; no allowances for any user error. For example, there is nothing to prevent you from over-tightening the steam wand. You're just supposed to somehow know that the type of valve used doesn't need to be tightened, just turned. Tighten the valve like a tap? It'll soon start leaking. Not checking for steam wand leaks regularly? (You can't see a small steam leak.) Not an issue if you prime the boiler at every startup. (Typical machines have sensors to keep the boiler full. There are no sensors in the Silvia - you're the sensor that detects if the boiler needs to be filled (primed), and you're the one turning the pump on and off.) Another example: the frame is not stainless steel. People complain about the frame rusting around the drip tray. Follow any good Italian bar training, and they'll tell you that at the end of every day, the drip tray comes out and is cleaned and dried. People who don't know this - and how would a typical consumer know? - will leave the drip tray in; then the frame will rust out in a few years. (The Silvia even has a hole in the frame so if some water drips from the 3-way valve with the tray removed, then the water won't pool on the frame. The design is good; but it doesn't suffer fools.)

I can't recommend any coffees to you as I am not at all familiar with your local roasters - or any Swedish roaster.

My opinion of the Rocky is there are many other options available and I would never buy one. However, grinder pricing in the EU has historically been quite different than North America - so a make/model that may be a good buy in North America might be overpriced in the EU market, and vice versa.

Haha maybe a bad example, Jeeps have degraded over the years hehe.

Hmm interesting, you know what you're talking about. I'll keep this in mind and check for rust tomorrow. Haven't seen any around the drip tray from the pictures so I hope it translates to reality.

What would be your personal grinder pick on a budget, electric or manual like Jeff mentioned? In any case, which model?

I recommend the route of using a hand grinder if you're on a bit of a budget. I just got my 1zpresso JX Pro and while I intend to use it just for pourover, it seems fully capable to be dialed in for espresso. I'll continue using my Eureka Manuale as it works great for my Gaggia (and was ~$300).

I second the recommendation of sticking with espresso blends. I've attempted to veer off those to single origin and they're just a disaster in my Gaggia (spurty, channeling messes).

Bollski99 wrote:...What would be your personal grinder pick on a budget, electric or manual like Jeff mentioned? In any case, which model?

Well, at least in North America, used commercial grinders are going for pennies on the dollar at bankruptcy sales and auctions right now. Restaurants and café's are closing all over the place. That's what I would get today. (I have one such grinder, but from the last financial crises - 2008 IIRC)

Considerations such as size, appearance, noise, messiness, speed, ergonomics, your arm and upper body strength, roast levels, single-dosing vs. hopper, how comfortable you are at modifying grinders ... are all factors that I know nothing about.

As you mentioned Jeep, look at it this way
Q. What kind of car should I buy?
A. Corolla
A good answer if you want an appliance, but maybe not useful if you want to participate in Jeep Jamborees (off-road tours).

Regardless, one of the espresso grinders that I use daily has a price just under the Rocky, so that's my recommendation. The manual Pharos 2.0. I need its optional mounts to be bolted to the counter ("Pharos bench dogs") or the grinder goes flying across the counter. My ex took one look at it and refused to have it in the kitchen. However, nothing comes close the Pharos' grind quality for espresso at that price point. Grind quality über alles.

Also, everyone says Niche Zero these days, so that's definitely a recommendation.

Getting back to the Silvia... I know these fave fallen out of fashion lately, but I still think they are one of the more solid entry level machine. Bomb proof and easy to work on.

dreadnatty08 wrote:I recommend the route of using a hand grinder if you're on a bit of a budget. I just got my 1zpresso JX Pro and while I intend to use it just for pourover, it seems fully capable to be dialed in for espresso. I'll continue using my Eureka Manuale as it works great for my Gaggia (and was ~$300).

I second the recommendation of sticking with espresso blends. I've attempted to veer off those to single origin and they're just a disaster in my Gaggia (spurty, channeling messes).

Thanks for your input!

I checked out the JX Pro and it seems very capable for espresso while not costing a fortune. I also like the fact that it appears to be pretty fast. Tough choice between it, the Comandante and M47. In Sweden the JX pro is $235, the M47 $285 and the Comandante is $320.

Haha yeah, guess I'll be sticking to blends, no problem with that:)

baldheadracing wrote:Well, at least in North America, used commercial grinders are going for pennies on the dollar at bankruptcy sales and auctions right now. Restaurants and café's are closing all over the place. That's what I would get today. (I have one such grinder, but from the last financial crises - 2008 IIRC)

Considerations such as size, appearance, noise, messiness, speed, ergonomics, your arm and upper body strength, roast levels, single-dosing vs. hopper, how comfortable you are at modifying grinders ... are all factors that I know nothing about.

As you mentioned Jeep, look at it this way
Q. What kind of car should I buy?
A. Corolla
A good answer if you want an appliance, but maybe not useful if you want to participate in Jeep Jamborees (off-road tours).

Regardless, one of the espresso grinders that I use daily has a price just under the Rocky, so that's my recommendation. The manual Pharos 2.0. I need its optional mounts to be bolted to the counter ("Pharos bench dogs") or the grinder goes flying across the counter. My ex took one look at it and refused to have it in the kitchen. However, nothing comes close the Pharos' grind quality for espresso at that price point. Grind quality über alles.

Also, everyone says Niche Zero these days, so that's definitely a recommendation.

Yes, we get some of that too over here in Sweden. However commercial ones are usually pretty big and noisy, not very popular with girlfriend.

Ofc, the Corolla is the better comparison! I like the idea of having a reliable and no frills machine, even though it may be harder to get killer shots with. Maybe it's good for learning the art though, eventually making me a better home-barista:)

I will check out the Pharos, but I fear I'll have the same situation. I think for manual grinders the M47, Comandante or the JX PRO is more popular at home.

kray wrote:Getting back to the Silvia... I know these fave fallen out of fashion lately, but I still think they are one of the more solid entry level machine. Bomb proof and easy to work on.

I like that about them, it's great to have so many parts available too if something goes wrong. And they are very moddable, which is not news to anyone:)